[EitB LVII] Es war einmal - Xist Fairy Tales

[DaveV]

Wine instead of Mushroom is a maybe.
Effective 2c for 2p.

I forgot you're in God King, and was thinking it was 2c for 1p.

I have built 0 roads yet, but I will do it next turn. expecial because there are 1 (2) more field to grow into.
wine/mushroom and second sage with mage circle.
Interesting question. When do I should built the mage circle. direct after the settler ?

If you don't build it right away, why use the sage for a lightbulb? Lots of people, including me, would argue that there's nothing more important to build in the early game than more settlers. In this case, though, I think the map knowledge from having access to floating eyes will let you put your cities in better places. It will put you behind the other players, but I hope your better cities will let you catch up. The mage guild also lets you run a second sage.

[xist10]

T18 shows, why Exploration is dangerous.
The warrior has a small chance to survive (4,5 v. 5). I miss the additional 25% defense from forest in BtS.



The scout flees before his polar bear...



and finds in T19 the next danger.
Spiders are as strong as bears. But the are invisible, so most units are attacked out of the fog.

I think this spider is held on this tile ? 25% fortification indicates, the spider didn't moved for 5 turns.

The scout retreats.



The warrior lost sadly. And I'm not learning and didn't recall the second scouting warrior.



I bulbed Knowledge of the Ether with the great sage.

80 prod is not a small amout, but I have 150% bonus in the capital.



So only 5 turns after the settler.



The next sage needs 24 turns.




And I got punished, because I uses the warrior for further exploration.
The Combat2 Griffon is bad.
Question: Animals don't get attacked by other barbs, or ? - Do barbs attacks (player controlled) units with hidden nationality ?
And would I get a contact information, if this griffon is player controlled ?



And the scout lives dangerous too.
The warrior lost against the griffon.

I think I should promote my 6xp warrior with Combat2, or ?
I thought about Forest2 to explor, but the warrior should escort the settler and Combat2 is better for this.



Calendar is in.



The civis is good, but I wait till I finished the settler.



And I calculated if the additional food from the civic is enough to built the settler in 4.
With that, I have noticed the the palace give 1 prod. So I only lose 1 prod, if I work the wine. 2c are better than 1p.

[DaveV]

I think this spider is held on this tile ? 25% fortification indicates, the spider didn't moved for 5 turns.

Yes, spiders will stay motionless except:
1. To attack an adjacent unit.
2. To move out of territory controlled by a civilization, if possible.
3. To escape from an adjacent recon unit that is inside a civilization's borders.

The next sage needs 24 turns.

Fewer after you build the mage guild, if you want to run a second sage.

Question: Animals don't get attacked by other barbs, or ? - Do barbs attacks (player controlled) units with hidden nationality ?

Animals and barbs are on the same team, and will stack together on the same tile. Animals will never share a tile with another animal, though.

And would I get a contact information, if this griffon is player controlled ?

Yes.

I think I should promote my 6xp warrior with Combat2, or ?

Combat 2 probably makes the most sense in a game with lairs. Poison goblins and lizardmen are pretty tough foes, as are animals, as you've seen. Counterpoint in favor of shock promotion: only barb warriors (and, later, axemen) can pillage, so they are the most important barbs to kill. At Emperor difficulty, units built in barbarian cities will start with 4XP for free, so they'll have at least one promotion when you encounter them. They can stack up some more by killing your scouts or those from other players.

One reason I recommended bulbing KotE was so that you could do your exploration with floating eyes and not have to risk your units. You may have to build more warriors so you have enough defenses against barbs; I recommend a bare minimum of two units per city. Not having to build more warriors was a justification for spending production on a mage guild and adept; now that rationale doesn't apply any more. Sorry for not being more explicit.

[xist10]

Thanks for the answers.

And the exploration with warriors was not very clever, but I wanted to scout potential city sites. And I think I would still do it ? Adepts for floating eyes where known to me - on CF, there was a question, why I didn't research hunting for birds ? I can replaces then with floating eyes.
I'm still not very convinced with both city sites.
Corn/mana in the south west seems to be better, but I'm not really sure where to plant.
The spices doesn't help there. I think the city ruin is a good point for a further city, so in the flat land between corn and rice ?
The copper/wheat/mana city is maybe a bit weaker (and on flat land too), but it's in the direction of the standing stones. A huge plus for me.

[DaveV]

I'm still not very convinced with both city sites.
Corn/mana in the south west seems to be better, but I'm not really sure where to plant.

I would put the city on the plains hill between corn and sheep. It can work the corn and three riverside grassland tiles (two stolen from the capital, which has plenty of other good tiles), plus some mines or cottages, and produce workers and settlers forever.

The spices doesn't help there. I think the city ruin is a good point for a further city, so in the flat land between corn and rice ?

I don't see any rice in the screenshots. Is it somewhere south of the Mines of Zarakh-Din? I would recommend a weaker city that has a food resource and the Mines both in first ring, if possible, for happiness and commerce. Building cities with most or all of their good tiles in the second ring is a mistake that I used to get away with in single player, but had to unlearn when playing against humans.

The copper/wheat/mana city is maybe a bit weaker (and on flat land too), but it's in the direction of the standing stones. A huge plus for me.

See above. There are two good first ring tiles, and nothing else. You could build some cottages if you're planning to research Education in the near future, then I'd be more excited about this spot. It would still be slow to grow onto the cottages with only one food tile.

Question: Animals don't get attacked by other barbs, or ? - Do barbs attacks (player controlled) units with hidden nationality ?

Sorry, I missed the second part of this question. Barbs *will* attack player-owned, hidden nationality units. In the case of spiders, I think they have to be able to see the spider, or have it spotted by one of their friends.

[xist10]

I would put the city on the plains hill between corn and sheep. It can work the corn and three riverside grassland tiles (two stolen from the capital, which has plenty of other good tiles), plus some mines or cottages, and produce workers and settlers forever.

Good point. I think I have the city site.

I don't see any rice in the screenshots. Is it somewhere south of the Mines of Zarakh-Din? I would recommend a weaker city that has a food resource and the Mines both in first ring, if possible, for happiness and commerce. Building cities with most or all of their good tiles in the second ring is a mistake that I used to get away with in single player, but had to unlearn when playing against humans.

I plan to resettle the ruins. Seems to be a good place.
And most (all) important ressource in the first ring is clear too.

See above. There are two good first ring tiles, and nothing else. You could build some cottages if you're planning to research Education in the near future, then I'd be more excited about this spot. It would still be slow to grow onto the cottages with only one food tile.

I'm research Education right know. And at least for BtS I plan with one food ressource per city.
I concur, the conr spot is a bit better, but I still think this site is valide.

[xist10]

I really should try to update more.
But I'm working on a Modmerge for another PB, so Time is a bit constraint in the moment.



This is the actual situation.
2 Goblins next to the city. I have the Combat2 Warrior for +110% and the unpromoted warrior for +70%. (25% hill, 25% fortification, 20% city)
The city should not fall (if the goblins are attacking). The first goblin waited 1 round.
Problem: I need 4 warriors, before I attempt to attack the hill.
My Combat2 warrior has "only" 70%, so I want another warrior to attack the first goblin. And I expect I need 2 warriors to kill the other.

"Problem" I have finished the settler.



I'm think of escorting the settler with the unpromoted warrior the the west.
I have roaded the tile on 4 of the city, so both units should reach the citysite in 2 turns.
Possible problems: The goblin in the west could move on the citysite.
And I have only 1 warrior against 2 goblins in the capital. The 110% should be enough, but there is always the chance of a bad roll.

Vodka says, 1 caravel defending with 110% city bonus against 2 caravels wins ~ 80%.
Carevels because they can benefit from defense bonus and have strenght 3.
It's a bit harder, because my warrior becomes poisened after the first fight.

[DaveV]

I think there's only a 50% chance of the warrior being poisoned on defense; it's definitely less than 100%. And the warrior bonus for being in a city is 25%, not 20%, so things are very slightly better than you're describing.

Sigh. This is exactly why it was a bad idea to send your warriors out to be eaten by animals. I would keep both warriors at home till the goblins attack. Even a 20% chance of game over is too high for me.

[xist10]

I was able to defend without loss.

With 2 warriors, I'm going for adepts and the second sage slot.



In built an elder council in Schneewittchen (Snow White) at the start.
I don't need the culture yet, I could profit from a second city which is running GS and I lose 50% of my prod for a warrior in the moment.

[DaveV]

There are two red circles in your Schneewittchen picture, presumably due to barbarian invaders. I assume the northern one is the goblin shown earlier; what about the southern one? If you start seeing lizardmen, it's even more important to have more warriors.