Woden's and Chevalier Mal Fet's [Insert Clever Name Here] Team Thread

[Woden]

Found it:

I left the natural wonders where they appeared. I think there are 3 natural wonders, one of the others is a 1 tile lake that I think gives 4 faith to the west of oledavy on an island, and I honestly haven't a clue where or what the 3 one is. I only think there are 3 because I seem to remember that number of popups when I used the "reveal all" command to test the starting save. The natural wonder tool in World Builder is buggy so I didn't touch it. I haven't done extensive testing but I know for a fact that 2+ tile natural wonders can't be placed and removing them causes issues so I didn't touch that tool to be safe.

There is also a post in the Custom Mapmaking Thread that states the Natural Wonders option in the world builder is buggy, so I have to agree that they will be located where they naturally formed when the map was initially created and no guarantees on each continent having one.

[Woden]

Replies and Random Thoughts...

Since it looks most likely that we will miss a turn today (surprisingly not because of the guy who stated he needs a break), I figured I would post some random thoughts related to the current game and replies to CMF's post at the end of the last page. 

CMF, don't worry about stepping on anybodies toes. You do play right after me and I usually have to delay my posts until my kids go to bed, so you will probably post your turn before most nights. Besides, I like to post off the cuff thoughts at the beginning of my posts somethings that really don't mean anything. It is actually nice that you are reporting the highlights for both of us. It lets me know if what you are seeing and it might help let me know if you miss or question something or if I do the same. So, please continue. 

Since you don't mind, I will probably continue with CMF then I don't have to go back and check to make sure I am spelling Chevalier Mal Fet correctly anytime I need to communicate something. 

Here is a general comment on district placement I think we will see in more games in the future. While pretty cities that maximize adjacency bonus are awesome to try and get, there is much discussion over at CivFanatics that it is better to place the districts as soon as possible, even if it means forgoing some adjacency bonus. I guess the theory is that your cities develop quicker, buildings are better than the district bonus, and the production savings outweigh the 1 or 2 yield bonus or gold spent to get that 3rd ring district for 1 or 2 higher yield. IMO, I am starting to think they are right unless the bonus is high (like a +4/+5 Campus). Just wanted to bring this up as a discussion point before we get into city planning. That being said, with the PBEM where its 1 turn a day and we can spend weeks planning stuff before it happens, feel free to try and work out the most optimal set up. One thing to consider with England, you are going to want lots of City Center/Harbor/Commercial Hub triangles to maximize gold (even better if it is on a river). 

As previously stated, I agree that there is no guarantee that we have a Natural Wonder on our continent, I guess we will have to look and see. It would be nice if we could get a relic from each Natural Wonder and at least deny 4 relics from the Kongo/Khmer team. Please correct me if I am wrong but there are only 14 relics right? Agree that we should keep Kandy around until we find the Natural Wonders, then kill them off. 

Also agree with your plans for Kabul. Good to have them around in the early turns for bonus production and them work them into your fold. Their Suzerain bonus won't help me much anyways. My ranged already get 50% more experience and I believe the experience you receive per attack/kill has a limit of 8 exp anyways (which is what 100% bonus would bring it too) and killing barbs after level 1 promotions is limited to 1 exp per attack/kill no matter what. The only thing that could really make us reconsider would be if the third CS is also militaristic. Then it might be better to have both around to get some nice production on armies, settlers, and builders. I will probably have lots of encampments. But, I do hope for a Science, Cultural, or Commerce one as the third.

[Chevalier Mal Fet]

England Turn 9



Nothing exciting happens this turn. Emperor K finishes his first tech, one turn before I'll finish Animal Husbandry. The barbarian scout moves south, towards Kabul, where it meets my warrior, while my own scout climbs the hill to get a look at the terrain - lots of desert. Nubia will probably want to found a city over here eventually, I think. 

I decide to peek at the Great People for the first time, since that's not been done yet: 

Sun Tzu, with an early Great Work, Gaius Duilus, who gives an early fleet, Bi Sheng, and Crassus. The Great Scientist might be interesting in a team game - he's as good as 6 Eurekas in this set up. 

One possibility I was considering was the Mausoleum of Helicarnassus. You need a coastal city to build it, and China has competing priorities like the Pyramids, Petra, and the Coliseum. It gives all your great people an extra charge, so I could form a classical age fleet and still have my GA boosting it, for example. It's a nice little boost if I can spare the hammers at some point. Worth considering.

[Woden]

Nubia-Turn 8

Moved warrior southeast and spot some coast south of Kandy. Moved slinger southwest and find a bunch of hills. Amon grew to 2-pop and is working the horses...



This dropped the Builder from 7 to 5 turns. I also pinned a potential spot for my second city...



Initial called it "Nubian 2nd city" but changed it to "Horus-2nd City?" I might shift it 1 tile east if there is freshwater that way.  This city will be my production powerhouse with many plains hills and grassland hills. Hopefully there is a high food tile under the fog otherwise it will be a slow grower, but that is OK, I can push out military and builders from it. 

Here is the rankings...



We are first in Military Score and Religion, so looks like nobody else has met a religious city state yet. Russia finished a tech this turn, so Team 1 is in the lead. Rome finished CoL a few turns back and Team 2 is leading culture. 

Tile picker will grab the western wheat next turn and Animal Husbandry will finish in 2. I will easily have the inspiration for Craftsmanship by the time I need it since the Builder will be out before CoL finishes and I will have my pantheon shortly after that. I should be able to get Goddess of the Harvest unless someone builds a high yield Holy Site and gets to 25 faith in the next 11 turns.

[Chevalier Mal Fet]

Turn 10



Turn arrives, and ding! Animal Husbandry. A lot of scores jump to 11 in the scoreboard, which represents either techs or civics completing - I forgot to check, I played this turn in a hurry. 

In the south, the barbarian scout vanishes back the way he came: 

I move the warrior north - I'll link up with the settler and escort him back to the site of Salamis, while producing a slinger. The warrior and slinger can then combine to clear out the barbarian camp. 

My scout continues to probe west. The desert extends a good distance, with tons of hills and a lake. With a river and rice for growth, it could be a decent Petra site down the road for Nubia (if China would let that wonder go. Tough call). 



Goals: Finish Code of Laws, then swap my tiles back into growth mode. Send the scout south of the lake, and see if I can locate the coast (but I have to be wary of a barbarian encampment in the area). Get the settler out and found Salamis, then follow it up with a slinger and builder. I think I want at least one more settler using Kabul's bonus, then I'll build a small military and wipe it off the map to establish myself with 4 cities relatively quickly.

[Woden]

Nubia-Turn 10

Warrior moves southeast, slinger moves west...



Not sure if I want to keep the marked spot for city #2 or move it to either of the 2 freshwater tiles on the southern bank of the river. The southeast tile would give England's capital a little more room and would only compete for 3rd ring tiles but would waste some forest. Moving to the southwest would give my capital a little more and would split the distance but would probably grab some of England's 3rd ring tile, since they will be 2nd ring. 

Here is an overview...



Up by the leaders, you will notice that everybody but Japper007 has built a unit with Rome building a warrior. Also, Singaboy and Brick/Sulla have finished both a tech and civic, meaning China most likely has met a cultural city state. Japper007 and Emperor K have finished a tech each. CMF will finish AH this turn and I will finish it next turn. Everybody is at 2-pop capitals.

[Chevalier Mal Fet]

Turn 11

Save arrived while I was at dinner, but I tried to get it off as quick as I could. Singaboy doesn't have much time in the evenings, though, so we'll probably have to wait until morning for him to play. Still, managing 1 turn a day like we have been in such a large game is impressive, I think.

First, minor PBEM6 spoilers, so suboptimal and Alhambram keep out!: 

Emperor K does a great score update at the start of every turn in PBEM6. I love that idea, it's a great way to keep track of our enemies' movements. So I'm shamelessly stealing it.]

Score update:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           

Player Score	Score	Civic	Empire	Great People	Religion	Tech	Wonders
Japper	10	0	8	0	0	2	0
Emperor K	10	0	8	0	0	2	0
BRickAstley	11	2	7	0	0	2	0
Woden	9	0	7	0	0	2	0
Chevalier	9	0	7	0	0	2	0
Singaboy	11	2	7	0	0	2	0
The Archduke	7	0	7	0	0	0	0
Mike	9	0	7	0	0	2	0

                                                                                                                                                                     

Rankings	Tech|Science	Culture	Domination	Religious	GPT
Japper	1|?	?	22	?	?|?
Emperor K	1|?	?	36	?	?|?
BRickAstley	1|?	?	45	?	?|?
Woden	1|3.6	1.7	39	2	5.2|52
Chevalier	1|3.6	2.7	35	0	62|5.2
Singaboy	1|?	?	36	?	?|?
The Archduke	0|?	?	37	?	?|?
Mike	1|?	?	37	?	?|?

   
   
   
   
   
   

Great People	Gen	Adm	Eng	Mer	Pro	Sci	Wri	Art	Mus
Japper	0|0.0	0|0.0	0|0.0	0|0.0	0|0.0	0|0.0	0|0.0	0|0.0	0|0.0
Emperor K	0|0.0	0|0.0	0|0.0	0|0.0	0|0.0	0|0.0	0|0.0	0|0.0	0|0.0
BRickAstley	0|0.0	0|0.0	0|0.0	0|0.0	0|0.0	6|1.0	0|0.0	0|0.0	0|0.0
Woden	0|0.0	0|0.0	0|0.0	0|0.0	0|0.0	0|0.0	0|0.0	0|0.0	0|0.0
Chevalier	0|0.0	0|0.0	0|0.0	0|0.0	0|0.0	0|0.0	0|0.0	0|0.0	0|0.0
Singaboy	0|0.0	0|0.0	0|0.0	0|0.0	0|0.0	0|0.0	0|0.0	0|0.0	0|0.0
The Archduke	0|0.0	0|0.0	0|0.0	0|0.0	0|0.0	6|1.0	0|0.0	0|0.0	0|0.0
Mike	0|0.0	0|0.0	0|0.0	0|0.0	0|0.0	0|0.0	0|0.0	0|0.0	0|0.0

Anyway, turn 11. Couple of items of note, nothing too earth-shattering. First, I found our third city-state neighbor in the northwest:



Inspecting the area on settler view before my move sent my scout to circle around the north end of the lake. There, I discover the second item of note this turn: the barbarian camp! Probably the home of the vanished scout. My warrior probes northwards back towards the capital, but the bugger must have withdrawn off to the west, for he's nowhere in sight. Code of Laws is due next turn, so I leave the tiles at the capital intact. 

I do re-jigger the dot map at Salamis, though, to try to take better advantage of district adjancies instead of purely natural terrain. This is still far in the future, but I see no harm in planning now. IM Silman likes to propound this technique of analysis in his chess advice column: Don't calculate. Instead, picture what your dream position is. Figure out how your current situation differs from that. Then, take the steps you need to take to reach your dream position. 

So, my dream city of Salamis: 

Three tight districts, many of which can be built with chopping and harvesting the stone. The city center, CH, IZ, and Harbor all give adjacency bonuses to each other. The city also opens potential slots for two useful naval-themed World Wonders: The VA remains tucked in its alcove next to the IZ, while the Mausoleum of Helicarnassus, which boosts specifically Great Admirals and Great Engineers, is slotted in on the stone adjacent to the harbor (only other valid spot would be the tea). Do I expect this to be the final state of the city? Well, no, it's a lot of work to get there. I need a lot of housing, and I'm probably going to need a farm triangle stolen from Kabul with those rice paddies to grow the city enough. However, at size 7 it will have 3 districts with big adjacencies (3 mines next to the IZ!), access to food via Kabul's rice and potentially the northwestern paddy, no less than 5 hills for mining, with forests for chopping, and a luxury resource on the tea. The two WW will make it the heart of my projected naval powerhouse. That's a pretty ideal city! Most of my domestic development will be aimed at bringing this to life. 

I haven't given as much thought to Trafalgar yet, and I have to find a suitable city site to the west (the scout, once he shakes off the barbarians and meets the city state, will resume coastal exploration), but in the coming turns I'll try to plot the ideal Trafalgar, too.

[Woden]

CMF,
I won't worry too much about playing quickly to get Sinagboy the save unless it is before 3:45 pm (CST). He leaves for work around 6:00 am (which would be 4:00 pm CST). He scheduled turn time isn't until after work which is 6:00 pm -9:00 pm Singapore time (5:00 am - 8:00 am CST) and with the current players I don't think having him play in his morning is going to speed things up since TheArchduke is a morning person, Japper007 and Mikefall are night people, and they are all in CET time.

Also, it is going to be hard for me to play before 3:30 pm CST during the week unless I am working from home or want to remote in and I don't really like remoting in because the connection is chopping and has caused a few misclicks in the past. I have been luck so far; every time the save has come early, I have been working from home so my turn time is low but it won't last. That being said, if we can play early and you can get it to him before 3:45 pm CST, great! It will reduce the number of posts about the save coming to him after he is already at work.

Awesome news about finding the third City State, hopefully it is a cultural or science one. As for my turn...

Nubia-Turn 11

Start the turn by finishing...



Move my warrior southeast and find our first sea resource (whales) and move the slinger to defog between our capitals. Also notice a bunch of score changes...



Both Rome and China have a tech and civic each (as reported last turn) plus Kongo's and Russia's capitals have grown to size 3. TheAchduke and me as the only 2 that don't have a tech or civic done but I did finish a tech this turn and suspect TheArchduke will also. Will have to check next turn. That is about it.

[oledavy]

Next turn could I get some top down shots of your land, with yields on, and one with settler view on?

I would suggest moving Horus 1 SW to get that silk and the 2/2 tile in its first ring. It really needs a good food file, but at least it will have solid production. Good candidate for a TR early. 

I like Salamis, not sold on it being the best second city yet. We'll see what you find to the west. 

Tile bleed shows that final city-state is military or industrial, I can't quite tell. Either way, major blow there. 

We could have really used a Mercantile one for CH spam goodness. 

I think you two should be considering taking Kabul extremely early, utilizing a combined force. You can potentially get it sooner by pooling military resources. 

I don't know who it should go to, although I lean England.

[oledavy]

Final aside, we probably want Nubia to settle the cities to England's west for those desert and flood plains.