December 16th, 2011, 06:24
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Hello Sian, pleased to meet you. It's going pretty well, lands are fairly 'plainstastic' but there seems to be a lot of resources which is good, there's also a floodplains bonanza to our northeast which we havent fully explored, but looks tasty. Layout seems to suggest everyone is on individual 'hubs' so that probably cuts down on early aggression, although we're not sure how many connections to other land there are. What are your thoughts on the map so far?
So I sent this off, asking a direct question to hopefully ensure a reply, when we can get into the real meat and potatoes coughwonderplanscough.
December 16th, 2011, 10:34
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So we've met Sian, we've been swapping map ideas, and pretty much come to the conclusion of 4 player hubs with 2-4 exits onto other hubs, or onto islands (well Sian suggested this but I agreed) and have a crappy paint drawing of what it could look like which I'll post later.
Anyway I'd like to establish how far you'd like to push our relationship with Sian. I'd actually like to ally quite strongly with Sian at least for the early game, reasoning being:
-He has the highest ability to hurt us through indirect means in the early game(i.e. building wonders). Forming a relationship with Sian may allow us to scout out his plans to avoid wasting hammers.
-He's been fairly free with ideas on the map so far, which while not proof he'll be an accomodating ally suggests we could have a reasonable relationship without too much difficulty.
Disadvantages are:
-As discussed previously has probably the strongest traits for this game, so could be a big rival.
I feel the key point is the effect he could have on our early game, and I propose that in my next email I offer an early game NAP, say turn 50, and ask about possible wonders he is going after.
What do you think?
December 16th, 2011, 12:46
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Please post the diplo logs here when you get a chance. I agree with buddying up with him, although I would recommend discussing for a while longer before committing too much. I think we should try to get a non-compete from him on the Oracle, maybe in exchange for a non-compete on GLH. How about asking him if he would be interested in discussing coordination of wonder plans? Hopefully he'll both see that as a mild threat (someone else pursuing a course of action that might impede him) and an opportunity to disarm the threat (reducing competition for the wonders he wants). If a subtle threat like that is enough to put him on guard then I'd be wary of forming strong bonds with him. If he responds favourably and is interested in making a deal then I'm inclined to trust him more. I think it would be very beneficial for us to make the above deal, it would all but ensure that we get the Pyramids. We could also inform him that we plan to go for Buddhism early on, which would both give him useful information (less risk of him making a failed big for a religion) and help us (less competition for Buddhism).
To summarize, I suggest this:
1) Suggest a t25 NAP with plans of extending it furter as mutual trust is built up
2) Ask him if he's interested in coordinating wonder plans
3) Ask if he's interested in full disclosure of exploration so far. Would let us turn our scout around and finish exploration of our nearby terrain, then let it proceed NE.
December 16th, 2011, 15:07
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I asked him for an NAP and about wonderplans. I'm just going to forward the diplo to you, we can always summarise it in the thread for the lurkers.
December 16th, 2011, 15:39
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Looks good, let's hope he wants to play ball :blob:
How do you feel about full map exchange? Don't see it harming us really, it'll just put both of us ahead of the competition (or even, assuming they're doing the same). With the condition that neither one of us will share this information with other players without permission, of course.
December 16th, 2011, 15:51
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Catwalk Wrote:Looks good, let's hope he wants to play ball :blob:
How do you feel about full map exchange? Don't see it harming us really, it'll just put both of us ahead of the competition (or even, assuming they're doing the same). With the condition that neither one of us will share this information with other players without permission, of course.
Are we even allowed to do that? I thought you werent allowed to trade maps until paper?
December 16th, 2011, 15:56
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Pretty sure we didn't ban that, and it's not usually banned from what I can tell. Asked in the tech thread.
December 16th, 2011, 17:26
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December 17th, 2011, 04:24
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Bit more of a standoffish attitude this time. I think we should still buddy up to him and make gestures of goodwill, without trusting him overly much.
I don't think we should back off on the Oracle, and we can beat him to it. We'd just need to spend a little more effort on getting chops ready, and make sure we beat him to Priesthood. I suggest sending him a still friendly message saying that we plan on going for the Oracle as well, but no hard feelings if he gets it first. I also suggest going ahead with the suggestion of trading screenshots, making a gesture of faith. If he rejects this, we will know that he will feel uneasy about close cooperation. I also suggest agreeing to t30 NAP.
Tech plan:
1) Finish Agriculture
2) Bronze Working (mainly for chopping)
3) Meditation
4) Priesthood
I doubt he'll go for early Meditation, knowing that we have Mysticism and want the Oracle. The above plan means putting Animal Husbandry on hold for a little bit, but we do have FP tiles to work while waiting for the cow. What do you think?
December 17th, 2011, 06:39
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Well our advantge is we can get our settler out faster due to IMP. I'm assuming he isn't going to build the oracle with only one city here, which will slightly level the odds. Just a note on techpath, according to the game (which redownloaded much faster than my usual internet speed). We apparently need Fishing, The Wheel, Pottery and Bronze Working in order to research Metal Casting.
Personally I'd slot in the wheel and pottery before priesthood, roads and granaries are important, and an early cottage might be crucial in gettting priesthood one or two turns earlier. I'm not entirely sure where fishing is best slotted in though.
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