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[Spoiler] Team slowwalk of the Reservoir Cats (Suleiman/Korea, slowcheetah + Catwalk)

slowcheetah Wrote:Well our advantge is we can get our settler out faster due to IMP. I'm assuming he isn't going to build the oracle with only one city here, which will slightly level the odds. Just a note on techpath, according to the game (which redownloaded much faster than my usual internet speed). We apparently need Fishing, The Wheel, Pottery and Bronze Working in order to research Metal Casting.

Personally I'd slot in the wheel and pottery before priesthood, roads and granaries are important, and an early cottage might be crucial in gettting priesthood one or two turns earlier. I'm not entirely sure where fishing is best slotted in though.
Damn, I sort of completely forgot about requirements for Metal Casting smile Fishing is not needed, though. Pottery requires The Wheel + either Fishing or Agriculture. And yeah, Imp is going to give us just a little bit more speed in the early game. Add our turn order advantage and I feel we definitely have a better chance of landing it than he does. It will require extensive chopping, though.

I'm going to sit on the save for a little bit, Agriculture just landed and I'm going to send the following to Sian:
Catwalk Wrote:Hello Sian.

Catwalk checking in from Team slowwalk, wanted to say hi to you as well. slowcheetah forwarded your earlier correspondence, so I should be up to speed. I'm sending this message to him as well, if you could please use "reply all" then we won't have to send messages back and forth.

We're happy to accept a t30 NAP. Incidentally, I wanted a t20 NAP and slowcheetah wanted a t50 NAP smile I agree that NAPs should be extended gradually as trust and cooperation is established. No hard feelings about competing for the Oracle, I hope you won't be too annoyed that we're making a beeline for it. We're also going to try for an early religion, our surroundings indicate that luxuries are scarce so we may as well use our mediocre starting techs for something useful.

Would you be interested in exchanging maps? That way we'll both be able to cover a lot more ground. We've explored W-SW with our scout and NE with our warrior so far.

Best regards,
Catwalk of Team slowwalk
Any thoughts? I'm trying to be friendly while also making a strong statement that we're committed to getting the Oracle. My comment about religion was also intended to be a friendly heads up while at the same time warning him that he could burn his fingers if he goes for one.

Also, any news on a sandbox? If we're going all out for the Oracle, we'd need good timing on things. Entirely up to you though, I'm fine with winging it.
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Well we're setting up a good old fashioned wonder race, which sounds like fun smile. I somewhat doubt he'll trade screenshots after we've told him we're not backing down on wonders, but I'm not honestly not too worried about it. Don't really think there is much to improve in all honesty.
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He agreed to trading screenshots, I've sent him ours. Maybe he'll reconsider the non-compete on the Oracle if we show him that we're committed to it and ahead of him. I could offer him info about which of the early religions we're going for and when, allowing him to grab the other one. The other players would likely be more cautious about going for a religion, giving him a head start. And being Ind/Org, GLH really is quite lucrative for him since he gets to build the required lighthouse at double speed. I'm going to run it by him again in a few turns, see if he'll change his mind if we offer something on top. Maybe a non-compete on Colossus as well.

Updated our exploration plan a little, and plotted down a potential dotmap:
[Image: exploration2-1.png]
[Image: dotmap-10.png]
As always, let me know if you disagree with any of it. Dotmap is only tentative, but we're starting to be able to make real plans for it. I really like the blue circle, and I suspect that the yellow circle will be the best option for our 2nd city. It's coastal, can share the corn and has plenty forests for the Oracle (5 visible forests, and 5 unexplored tiles). With a little luck we'll find another resources in those 5 tiles. If so, I think we have a winner. Sian mentioned seeing silver, maybe we lucked out with ivory instead.
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Nice work on the screenshots grab. I assume you've played the turn now we've got a reply. Our commitment might dissaude him slightly, I wouldn't bank on it though.
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Yep, played and sent it. He hasn't returned a screenshot yet (went shopping), but I assume it won't change our short-term plans. Do you agree with exploring the tundra region? I can't help but feel that there's something valuable down there (stone or marble, maybe strategic resources) and I'd hate to miss out on it. We also still have little idea what the overall world shape is.

How do you feel about the dotmap so far? Settlement order would be yellow, blue, green. Rest are less important. 2 filler cities could be added near the green city to help work cottages, as that city will be a monster if we manage to grab it. I agree with you it's probably a contested area.
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Sian's lands:
[Image: 29g_Overviewmap0000.jpg]
Not completely identical, but very similar. Same resources available, two PH locations for the start and a FP bonanza close by. Do we know yet what kind of wrap the world has? He has a very attractive settlement spot on our border, grabbing whales + deer + silver + wheat + furs. It would match my planned SW expansion nicely, except we'd be giving up the silver. We could offer to let him have this spot in peace in exchange for the non-compete on the Oracle, when re-negotiating in a few turns.
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Had a quick look at the turn, Kuro discovered a technology (mining) which i believe he could only have got if he has an oasis tile next to his city, someones GNP (probably Kuro's) has been 1 higher than everyone elses (18 to everyone elses 17). This isn't a pre requisite so must mean he is getting an extra commerce from somewhere, hence oasis.
I think the tech is mining because average soldier count has increased, due to the extra 2000 soldier points Kuro got for discovering mining.
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Dotmap wise, I agree with settling yellow first, then blue. However, I strongly disagree with settling green next in a multiplayer game, it's a reach city into a probably contested area, and unless we are willing to have a reasonable military early on I don't think it should be settled fourth. I've drawn up an alternative dotmap and I think Grey dot should be settled as the fourth city instead. It's coastal, grabs some of the floodplains and is still a strong early city site. Annoyingly those hills next to it still provide a gateway to our capital.

[Image: initial%20dotmap%20PBEM29g.jpg]

Exploration plan looks good, I agree with the scouts direction.
Regarding the silver site, I think it's a bit early to be offering to give away cities and resources, particularly a +2happy (with forges resource). I'd probably leave the diplomacy regarding the oracle in Sian's court for now, he knows we are both interested and with his IND trait I can't see him backing down. We are just going to have to win the wonder race on our own terms.
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slowcheetah Wrote:Dotmap wise, I agree with settling yellow first, then blue. However, I strongly disagree with settling green next in a multiplayer game, it's a reach city into a probably contested area, and unless we are willing to have a reasonable military early on I don't think it should be settled fourth. I've drawn up an alternative dotmap and I think Grey dot should be settled as the fourth city instead. It's coastal, grabs some of the floodplains and is still a strong early city site. Annoyingly those hills next to it still provide a gateway to our capital.
But it's oh so tempting! I say we find out if curiousity really did kill the cat wink On a more serious note, I'm not sure if it really is contested. If it's in the middle, wouldn't it be highly likely that either us or Sian would have met someone there by now? You're probably right that we should play it safe, and I'll probably give in on this one. I just feel strongly tempted to put down a strong site for massive research later on. How would you feel about this dotmap?
[Image: dotmap2-1.jpg]
Doubting myself as I'm typing this, already revised it a few times. We'll need more information to know for sure, but I think we can agree on the yellow and blue locations.
Quote:Exploration plan looks good, I agree with the scouts direction.
Regarding the silver site, I think it's a bit early to be offering to give away cities and resources, particularly a +2happy (with forges resource). I'd probably leave the diplomacy regarding the oracle in Sian's court for now, he knows we are both interested and with his IND trait I can't see him backing down. We are just going to have to win the wonder race on our own terms.
True, giving away silver would be a bit much. I just see big advantages for both of us in negotiating a non-compete on the Oracle. We'll be able to grab it at a more leisurely pace, he will be free to focus on building up and won't have to worry about a dogpile for putting up GLH. I would like to try to convince him of this a little later, there's a much lower combined payoff in a wonder race for the Oracle.
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A little more exploration carried out. I sent the warrior NE, and the scout discovered silver:
[Image: exploration-3.jpg]
We should get a city down before too long, all the resources make it a nice early settlement even if the long-term potential sucks. Where should the scout go next? The NW backfilling is not urgent, and I still feel there are more treasures awaiting us down there. EDIT: I see the silver failed to show up on the screenshot. It's 2S2E of the furs.

It seems like an equal land division would put the the western furs in Sian's half and the visible deer in our half.
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