For a forum that prides itself on trying new things, for the love of all that is novel and interesting, please can we have a new QotM? - Krill

Create an account  

 
[Spoiler] Team slowwalk of the Reservoir Cats (Suleiman/Korea, slowcheetah + Catwalk)

I just realized that I calculated Oracle costs all wrong. I assumed that base cost was 100, not 150. Which means that it's 100 on Quick speed, rather than 67. That makes it quite a bit more difficult to get it before Sian does, no wonder he was standoffish about insisting on it. It's probably safe to assume that we'll be teching at same speed and reach the 3 required techs (Pottery, Bronze Working and Priesthood) at the same time. We both have 2 techs on the path. If we want to chop it out safely, we'll be needing 7 forests + 9 hammers. If we were to get Priesthood before Pottery, we'll have extra turns with which to accumulate hammers. The one off-path tech we're considering is Animal Husbandry. How would you feel about bumping it down a little on our list?

The PH/FP location would work excellently for the Oracle. We can put out 5 hammers per turn easily, and it'll take us around 12 turns to research The Wheel and Pottery. With a little overflow from a warrior produced same turn we research Priesthood, that's 60 hammers produced + 39 hammers chopped + at least one hammer in overflow. If we revolt into slavery and grow the new city, we will be able to do extra overflow whipping. One problem with that is that we'll have to spend early production in the expansion on a monument, a barracks or warriors as a worker would prevent it from growing.

If we go for Meditation after Bronze Working, that'll let us land the Oracle at the earliest possible time. That requires us to go for an early settler, although we could delay Meditation when it's almost done and switch to The Wheel. I imagine Sian will be reluctant to grab a religion when he doesn't know which one we're going for.

Sooo..... how about it? Crossposted with you, btw.

I think we may have to sim it out and see who gets the Oracle built fastest. Are you still working on the sandbox? If not, I can try to whip one out tonight.

EDIT: Another potential issue is that we'll also need the worker capacity to chop forests around the capital for a rapid forge. Else the oracle city will pop out a great prophet before we can land the great engineer. Although being Philosophical, that might not be that much of a problem as we'll still get the great engineer quite fast. It'd be all but impossible for Sian to land the pyramids before our great engineer spawns. Is it 67 points for the first GP and 134 for the second? Means it'll take us either 12 turns or 23 turns to foster a great engineer. Sian needs to put out 223 hammers during that time (accounting for his bonus). If he were to chop 6 forests he'd also need to put out 6 hammers per turn for 24 turns. In the unlikely event he makes that, we'd still have a great engineer that can be burned on another wonder. Furthermore, he'd have reason to believe that we're going to land the great engineer. It'd be 17 turns before he finds out we get the great prophet first, I don't think he'll go all out for the pyramids on the off chance that we might screw up on getting the forge early enough.

Oracle city will create GP in 17 turns
Forge city will create GE in 12 turns

Do we know which city will create one first? If it does the capital first, our engineer will have first strike advantage. Regardless, putting up a forge in 4 turns would be perfectly doable if we start planning for it now. With 4 forests chopped, we'd need 7 hammers per turn for 4 turns. That'd require 2 mines.
Reply

I havent fully thought through my reply yet, but quick note before I forget. Techpath should probably be Ag, BW, The Wheel, Med rather than Ag,BW, Med, The wheel, because otherwise we can't get the settler out fast enough to found buddhism there (for borders). Note I am assuming two workers before settler. I think having a minimum of one worker per city at all times is almost always the right way to go, I didn't do any research on starts (didn't find the energy)
Reply

The big advantage of worker/settler/worker is that we'll be able to research Priesthood sooner (as we can found Buddhism sooner). That way we'll be able to put more produced hammers towards Oracle, rather than having to rely entirely on chops. Both of the ivory sites will be able to produce 3 hammers per turn at most.

I'm leaning pretty strongly towards my plan, sounds like we have interesting discussions ahead of us smile
Reply

Catwalk Wrote:The big advantage of worker/settler/worker is that we'll be able to research Priesthood sooner (as we can found Buddhism sooner). That way we'll be able to put more produced hammers towards Oracle, rather than having to rely entirely on chops. Both of the ivory sites will be able to produce 3 hammers per turn at most.

I'm leaning pretty strongly towards my plan, sounds like we have interesting discussions ahead of us smile

It does indeed look that way smile, im going to sim out (roughly) a few starts, and see if that can provide more of an answer. Did I remember to send you the WB file btw?
Reply

You sent it, but you said that it was somewhat inaccurate. I wasn't sure if you were going to make a different one or not.

I think we should focus our efforts along two main tracks:
1) Two workers first and settling the western ivory spot, with your proposed tech plan
2) Early settler and settling the FP spot with my proposed tech plan

The better we're able to describe those two plans the better we'll be able to evaluate them. Right now we have very little overview of them and are comparing small aspects of one plan vs small aspects of the other plan.
Reply

Only thing that was inaccurate was the world wrap, which we don't know yet, which only makes a difference to research speed. Having just run a test research speed was not a limiting factor, production was.

I worked through my preferred plan, and got The Oracle on turn 40 and a forge turn 43. GE expected turn 55.
This came with 5 workers and 4 cities settled by turn 45. 2 warriors on turn 40, but military can increase rapidly after that depending on need. Granaries can also be set up during the 40-45 turn period.

I'll redo and describe in more detail (if I can remember what I did), after I've tested your proposed plan. smile
Reply

Speaking of accuracy... I may have ever so slightly forgotten to [SIZE="1"]add a forest to a crucial grassland hill[/SIZE]. I'll alter that now.
Reply

Could you possibly tell me exactly what you did with the settler first? Also, I'll be honest I really dont like the floodplains city before we have any health resources, chopping any forests down makes it unhealthy at size three.
Reply

slowcheetah Wrote:Only thing that was inaccurate was the world wrap, which we don't know yet, which only makes a difference to research speed.

PBEM19, RL7's Mali thread might be worth checking out before you go much further.

When you get a sim map you want to run with, make sure it has "new random seed" enabled for future combat sims.

I love the extensive plan making happening on this thread. The time invested now will pay off by opening option later!
Reply

The sandbox finished bronze working on t14, which is 1t too late to start chopping after the corn farm. It finishes t13 in-game, so this throws plans off some.

I'm thinking about producing a worker after the first worker, but producing a settler on the two early turns where a chop is done.
Reply



Forum Jump: