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Ceiliazul · January 5th, 2012, 11:31

spacetyrantxenu Wrote:Preferably one that lets me have demos on them without them seeing ours when we are building a massive army

I'm sure one of the cyborgs on here could point to the formula, but Sian's 34 for graphs indcates to me that he's not putting a ton of EPs on you. (It would be higher by now.) Also, you can't have an agreement with everybody, you have to put your points somewhere.

spacetyrantxenu · January 5th, 2012, 12:15

Thanks Commodore. We <3 lurker help!

spacetyrantxenu · January 5th, 2012, 12:19

Ceiliazul Wrote:I'm sure one of the cyborgs on here could point to the formula, but Sian's 34 for graphs indcates to me that he's not putting a ton of EPs on you. (It would be higher by now.) Also, you can't have an agreement with everybody, you have to put your points somewhere.

Right, but since we're all generating at the same rate for now (before CoL anyway) it should be reasonably possible, and I would think desirable, to reach a point of near equilibrium, to prevent paranoia of or by people with big armies yikes

That's wishful thinking, though, and would actually require everyone to cooperate. And I'm already an intransigent sort of dictator myself. lol

spacetyrantxenu · January 5th, 2012, 13:53

Brief chat with Sian, I saw no reason to revisit the EP topic since he has agreed to disagree on it.

TL;DR - I let Sian tell me of his and Slowwalk's Oracle troubles himself, so now I can discuss that topic with either of them now that they've both independently reported it to me. Sian gave away some tech information, planning to take Monarchy for HR if he beats Slowwalk to the Oracle. Also, he knows it's a toroidal wrap and figured it out early on.

What do you think of going for HR with the Oracle? It seems like MC would be a better target for an IND leader, unless he wants to rush straight to growing his capital into a big science city. I don't think the early happiness cap is that big of an impediment. It seems he would want to stop growth to build workers and settlers for a while before HR became very important. All in all, though, it's good to see them fighting for the wonder. Maybe it will lead to bad blood between them, and complications later on.

Ceiliazul · January 5th, 2012, 16:26

spacetyrantxenu Wrote:What do you think of going for HR with the Oracle? It seems like MC would be a better target for an IND leader, unless he wants to rush straight to growing his capital into a big science city. I don't think the early happiness cap is that big of an impediment. It seems he would want to stop growth to build workers and settlers for a while before HR became very important. All in all, though, it's good to see them fighting for the wonder. Maybe it will lead to bad blood between them, and complications later on.

The tech sian is talking about is pottery. If he cant delay the oracle by enough to get pottery, then Monarchy is a heck of a lot better than nothing.

spacetyrantxenu · January 5th, 2012, 21:31

Chatted with Boldly, discussed our plan for the next few turns.

We talked more after that and worked out our worker plan for the next several turns. Briefly, we connect the ivory and prepare to build out a road toward city site 2 starting on T22. T23 and T24 road to SW of the C2 site, then when the settler completes on T24 it can immediately move to the C2 site and settle the next turn. When the city is built the two workers will be standing on the sheep ready to pasture. After that one will mine a GH, the other will begin roading NW toward the next site, C3, which will grant us horses.

Exhibits A-D (the lines are where workers will build roads) :

Not certain if we go for settler/settler out of the capital after the bow finishes or if we go settler/granary (growing onto new cottages) and then settler #2. I think getting the granary in first would be good since that will bring whipping into play when we get BW in. Since we'll already have city #2 built before BW finishes we'll probably revolt to slavery when the second settler is headed toward C3. There will be roads in place for that, so that's a 2 turn window to get the revolt completed.

Since we have no religion, strange for God-fearing Republicans, we'll probably have to research Mysticism at some point for monuments, distasteful as that is. Where it makes sense we'll pop borders with libraries instead, but the two northern cities we're planning now at C2 and C3 will be fairly low commerce and therefore won't prioritize libraries, making monuments more necessary to get their second ring border resources into play.

Further planning for our northern border site would look like this:

The site next to the deer is on flat land but it only has one land based forward attack vector, and that is across a river. Not impossible to overwhelm by any means but it will serve as a fortress nonetheless. I've discussed this city placement with Catwalk and we don't have an agreement about everything, but he is telling me (truthfully or not we'll see) that the silver is rightfully mine. I told him I'd be willing to let him settle his city before I settled the silver site so that he could control his own horses, even if it's in my border city's BFC. I hadn't posted that chat, so here goes (diplo haters feel free to skip).

Quote:4:23 PM Catwalk: MEOW

4:24 PM Mao: is holler a Danish word or is it just holler! ?

Catwalk: It's just holler

Mao: lol, i thought so

Catwalk: We have a similar word "hallÃ¸j" which basically means "howdy"

Catwalk: We have news to report

Mao: oooo? do tell!

4:27 PM Catwalk: We know why Kuro is so slow on his turns

Mao: you've DoW'd me and razed my capital?
well this should be good.

Catwalk: We sent him a complimentary truckload of catnip when we first met
He misread the dosage instructions

Mao: lol

Catwalk: And has been running around ramming his head into furniture
Makes it hard to play turns on time
So we feel responsible

Mao: does that also mean Kuro is a cat?

Catwalk: We think he's more of a dog, really

Mao: because i thought only cats were susceptible to the power of catnip.

4:28 PM Catwalk: Big and clumsy

Mao: ooo, i see.

Catwalk: We make catnip experiments on anyone
4:29 PM Mao: i've not tried it myself. Kitten huffing on the other hand....

http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Kitten_Huffing

Catwalk: I assume you're talking from second hand experience there
4:30 PM Otherwise that would really complicate relations

Mao:
I'm chatting it up with my ded-lurker / brother and we're discussing the map since you and i exchanged maps. we're tryng to put together a dotmap.

I remember a while back in an email you mentioned discussing plans for the tundra area but we never really got into it. do you care to discuss that? maybe not a border agreement, as such, since we republicans don't care for those, but a way for us to both settle the area ahead of our other rivals and not feel like we've used each other's sandboxes?

4:31 PM i hear that upsets cats, when other cats use their sandbox.
oh no, we republicans are of course against huffing anything, legal or otherwise. we have to keep up the pretense of a war on drugs.

Catwalk: It would make great sense to us to settle land before our rivals got there
Very good battle plan

4:32 PM Mao: i don't remember if you have AH or not, but you've seen where your horse are, right?

Catwalk: Yes, you showed us

4:33 PM Mao: btw, my ded-lurker Boldly Going Nowhere sends his regards. I was going to invite him to the chat but he reminds me that now is time for him to leave the office and apparently he only does RB stuff at work, however that works out

Catwalk: Send him our best

Mao: he says we should "murder the save holder"

4:34 PM Catwalk: Tell him he's welcome to drop by for catnip anytime

Mao: his reply: "ha alrighty. gotta go meow."

Catwalk: He'll make a fine kitty

4:35 PM Mao: i think on our team somehow i got cast as the 'good cop' when i desperately wanted to be 'bad cop.'

Catwalk: Yeah, me too
I wanted to be the cuddly kitten
We've sorted that out now
slowcheetah gets to be the bitch kitty

4:36 PM Mao: anyway, about the map. i don't want to settle up on your horses, that would be a decidedly unfriendly thing to do. i do see the river as kind of a dividing line, though, especially since it looks like there is going to be a similar river dividing each of our territories (all 4 players)

Catwalk: Let me have a look

<<redacted PBEM25 stuff>>

Mao: i think slowcheetah got the better end of the diplo then. i assume if relations ever get chilly between our states I'll be speaking more directly with him

4:37 PM i haven't caught up on PBEM25 yet, i barely had enough time to play my turns in the succession game over the holiday

4:38 PM Catwalk: Actually, the original plan was for slowcheetah to do most of the diplo
He's still willing to do that, but I've sort of jumped in claws first

Mao: i don't think i've spoken to him yet. is he in your time zone?

Catwalk: Yes, he's British

Mao: he's not upset about the whole vikings conquer all of britain thing is he?
(and if viking is a pejorative term i apologize, i hope it isn't!)

Catwalk: Not at all! We take great pride in all the killing of nuns and raping of monks that our ancestors did
4:40 PM Spreading culture (and our language) in the process

Mao: your ancestors were not known for subtlety.
but they gave us all the danelaw, did they not? hurrah

4:41 PM Catwalk: Simple people, simple pleasures

Mao: i'm full of tangents today, i think.

4:43 PM Catwalk: Okay, opened the game
Those rivers do indicate a natural partition, yes

Mao: back to the topic, i would like to maintain good relation with team kitty because as i have three kitties myself i find it necessary to maintain good relations, or suffer myself to be sometimes painfully clawed. to prevent that i'd rather not have to run settlers directly into that tundra area in a settling race. especially since that isn't the first rate land available to us
4:44 PM *to either of us

Catwalk: Let me cross check with the screenshots I have
4:45 PM We got one from Sian earlier, when we met him

Mao: i don't have full map knowledge up there yet but from what i see i think the silver would be in my territory. unfortunately to place a city in a good location near it that would endanger getting your horses very close to my borders, which i would like to avoid for the sake of good relations with your team

Catwalk: You will find me very indecisive today

Mao: i would hate for you to have to invade and attempt to remove an offending forward planted city, like sleeping moogle had to do with adlain in PB4

4:46 PM Catwalk: Being on a team and having to consult makes an excellent excuse for stalling, I'd be a poor leader not to take advantage of that

Mao: i want to avoid pink dotting your team, since i'd like to be friends

Catwalk: That would be greatly appreciated

Mao: by all means, stalling is a very valid tactic.
of course if you stalled to the point of rushing a settler to the spot in question, that would not be very friendly

4:47 PM Catwalk: The map does seem to present some unique challenges in making a proper dotmap
The horse is giving us all kinds of headaches

Mao: from my guess, the spot with wheat is about 2 to 2.5 ring to your capital, and is obviously in your area not mine. i will not snipe it. but we are in agreement that the river is a good line to not cross with a city plant?

4:48 PM yeah, it looks like commodore wanted things to be interesting in this area

4:49 PM Catwalk: I'm honestly a little confused about where exactly the natural line of partition is
As it's deliberately not completely symmetrical
The north and south rivers don't align, for example

Mao: i'm not saying i want to rush that area (on my side of the river) and settle right away, that looks like the kind of land you'd save for as late as possible. i would actually like you to settle the horses before i go for the silver so that you have a head start on a cultural battle for your horse tile. that seems most fair
i think the zones rotate a bit counter-clockwise, right?

Catwalk: There is another silver in there somehow, trying to dig up Sian's screenshot
Have you explored any in his or Kuro's directions?

4:50 PM Mao: oh really? i only see the one. i assumed there would be a different if rare happy resource on the other side
my scout is heading that way now but it's all hills and forests that he seems to find
i've only seen your screenshot of kuro's land and have seen nothing of sian's
i only assume his is similar to mine since we are opposite of each other

4:51 PM Catwalk: Hmm
Seems there's 4 silvers
All in between two players
Ie. one between you and me, one between me and Sian and so on
All off to the side

4:52 PM Mao: so there is one between me and kuro?

Catwalk: There should be, although we don't have visibility on it with our exploration

Mao: hmm

Catwalk: We plowed straight through the tundra

4:53 PM Mao: if that's the case hopefully we're all good neighbors and no one goes for 2 silvers

Catwalk: Well
I think we should be good neighbours
And both grab our western silver
Then either negotiate for the one between us and flip a coin
That way we get 2 out of 3

Mao: with that said, we don't have to wait until 1000 AD to get that area settled.
4:54 PM lol, i like your idea

Catwalk: Or if we want to be really good friends with everybody, we just agree to take one each

4:55 PM Mao: ack, work....back in a few minutes

Catwalk: I really have to run off for bed, though
I'll be available for more talks in the coming days, and I think slowcheetah will too
His new year celebrations apparently lasted about 4 days
Or maybe more like 1 day + 3 days of downtime
4:58 PM At first glance, it seems difficult for us to grab the silver by Sian
4:59 PM He has much better access to it than us, we're blocked by peaks
He can put down a good city with silver in its first ring, we can only make a second ring city
5:00 PM I will post these logs in the channel, if that's okay with you
And we'll talk lots more on this matter
As always, it's a pleasure dealing with your dictatorial highness

In summary, we're trying to work out the northern borders without forcing a Republican to sign a border agreement and without us having to rush for the sites in question. But if we get sniped because of delaying it wouldn't be unheard of to remove an offending city. hammer

Commodore · January 5th, 2012, 22:43

Thanks for the excellent turn report!

[SIZE="1"]You know two or three Protective bowmen would probably conquer someone this early...even Persia...[/SIZE]

spacetyrantxenu · January 6th, 2012, 07:22

The thought has crossed my mind but that wouldn't be very fun for Kuro now would it? Besides, our diplo modifier is only -5 right now. We couldn't possibly declare withoutt cause, right?

(Wait, my advisors are telling me we can do whatever we want, something about might makes right... bash

)

On a related topic Catwalk has informed me that he saw two workers in Persian territory chopping this turn, evidently both produced from size 1. His guess was to chop a quick IMP settler. Smart diplo by Catwalk if you ask me since I told him that Boldly wants us to "murder the save holder." If we clean out Kuro that should open a lot of land for Catwalk to casually expand into around his NE/SW wrap.

Perhaps it's time to reconsider the NAP offers proposed by Catwalk and Sian? lol

spacetyrantxenu · January 6th, 2012, 13:00

Number One played the turn for me and our intrepid scout Steve Inskeep never fails to impress with his resource hawking skills:

So evidently we were already planning to settle a silver and didn't know it. Nice! jive

Now, whether that should belong to Kuro or not is another matter, but since we haven't corresponded yet I can't be bothered to care about his opinion on it right now. It will be in the BFC of our 3rd city, which should give us plenty of time to get cultural control over the area. What we do with the second silver will remain to be seen, probably it will be trade bait.

I'll post F9 when I get home and can look at the save myself.

Boldly Going Nowhere · January 6th, 2012, 17:16

Commodore Wrote:[SIZE="1"]You know two or three Protective bowmen would probably conquer someone this early...even Persia...[/SIZE]

While I'd love to punish the turn holder, we don't even know how far it is to his capital. Also, with him having seemingly started worker, worker and researched to BW, it is possible that he could see us coming and chop out an axe or two to defend. However, if he's gone straight to a settler, well, he may be ripe for the picking.

Once we get city #2 up this is something to consider. Even a scouting in force could be the shot across the bow I'm looking for. Name the lead unit "don't hold" and the second "the save". That ought to make the point. :neenernee

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