[SPOILERS] 3 Players, 1 Civ, No Clues - Tatan, Nakor, and Serdoa are Darius of Rome

[Nakor]

Serdoa, I agree with your thoughts, but we really need to see more of the map and we might need a lucky hut to pull off TGL. With all free techs, other teams are in the same position to pursue TGL now.
There might be other ways to make our lands more profitable once we've seen a bit more.

[Nakor]

Turn had rolled already, so I made our moves:



Seems like we need IW to make our lands more profitable.
NE is sealed by another peak, so no need to worry about attacks coming from that direction.

[Tatan]

Quite honestly, we have shitty land, we have an island nearby and we start with Fishing, Mining. Do you really need more incentive to consider TGL? Only other viable play might be Oracle -> Metal Casting -> Colossus. But I would gamble that one of the IND-civs does go for Oracle... so, from my pov we should either try TGL or find another way to make our land viable. And going for non-agg Praets with an unbalanced map which might very well not have given us any metals and without knowing which neighbours we have doesn't sound for me like that other way tbh.

Sailing = 100 beakers
Masonry = 80 beakers

Lighthouse = 30 hammers (60 base / 2 for Org)
Great Lighthouse = 200 hammers

Two Trade Routes (per Coastal City) = +2 cpt (per Coastal City)


So the wonder has an upfront cost of 180 beakers and 230 hammers, an opportunity cost of not being able to build workers or settlers (slowing our snowball) and not being able to tech more relevant techs (IW, for instance, costs 200 beakers), and in addition we might not even get the wonder at all.

The reward for successfully getting the wonder is two extra trade routes in each coastal city. Of course, sinces this is Always War these can only be domestic trade routes, worth +1 cpt for most cities and maybe +2 cpt for any cities we can fit on those islands. But before the GLH can actually be providing a benefit, we have to have three cities, because with two cities there is only one possible trade route. It would take 60 turns with three cities, or 22.5 turns with four cities to repay the beaker cost. This does not take into account the lost hammer cost, nor does it account for any of the opportunity costs associated with slower worker/settler builds.

In short, I am not entirely sure the Great Lighthouse is worth the effort at all, and even more dubious of it in light of the fact that at least 2-3 other teams will also probably be going for it (there are 18 teams, after all, and we can't be the only team faced a long coast and rugged land). We can get the same amount of commerce faster just by spamming some early riverside cottages (+2 cpt immediately!). And we either have a close neighbor, making a rush/early attack much more viable, or we don't, in which case we can just ride the cottage-spam wave. I know, I know, we don't even know whether we have iron, but like Nakor said, we need IW to chop down that jungle anyway regardless of whether we rush or don't rush.

Perhaps, as you say, praet-cat stacks are far too easily countered (although we could always rush Construction ), and I am definitely open to alternative plans. But GLH just seems... not worth it.

Besides, Meatbalze stole it from me in PBEM10 and I'm still bitter.

FAKE-EDIT: I hope this post does not come off as too confrontational or anything, I just think that with a pairing like this it would be better to play to our strengths. Fin/Org to me screams early over-expansion, through rushing or REXing. I enjoy this dialogue!

[Nakor]

I think we'll just have to wait and see what happens in the next 30 turns. We need Agri, AH and BW before we decide where to go.
It might also depend on who we meet close to us.

I do agree with Tatan, though. Our leader asks for rexing, especially with good off/def units like Preatorians. But a few more turns will tell us what the best options are.

[Tatan]

Turn rolled and our unit movements seemed pretty obvious so I went ahead and played:



More hills, but I think some of those tiles east of Remus might be flat! Also the tile 2N,1E appears to be a hill and not a peak. I would say move the scout 1SE next turn.

[Nakor]

I would move the scout NE and the warrior NE - N...
Early turns can be so... slow...

[Nakor]

Turn flipped. I might be a bit busy tonight, so I'll leave it up to you guys.

[Tatan]

Moving warrior NE is a bit risky; what if someone moves out of the fog with a warrior after we've played our turn? ...Wait never mind that's never going to happen let's just move the warrior NE.

I grabbed the last turn, Serdoa you want to get this one? If enough people have ended there turn, I can go ahead and play it.

[Serdoa]

Turn played, followed Nakors suggestions. Warrior NE is imo only small risk, we still could always be in the cap before someone moving out of the fog as long as we do not play last the turn we are 1 tile away from the cap. And are logged in the second the turn rolls (or our opponent isn't). Ok well, maybe it is not that small a risk but it also is not a certain death if someone moves out of the fog.

Anyhow, Scout moved NE and found more jungle. Pic below

Except for the pig we still haven't found any one resource. We really need to think what to do here guys. I can't see any place for a second besides 1SW of the pig. And there we gain only a site which can get to 14 hpt at size 5 (12 at 4). But that site has no long term potential as I can't see any way to spread irrigation except for one grassland which gets us to 16 hpt at size 7, which is hardly worth it. And certainly not the right place for a second city in normal circumstances.

I know I sound like a broken record, but we need something to make our cities worthwhile. I am not sure if GLH is that (I haven't invested enough time in TR-calculations and I thought overseas-ones are worth more but I trust your word Tatan) but certainly having two cities to build 2.5 / 3 turn praets won't be it either.

All in all it seems no matter how good our civ/leader draw might look (and as I said I am not impressed) we certainly didn't have much luck in regards to the map.

Oh, btw: Someone has 14000 soldier points. I thought quickly about it and most I'd come up with is 8000 (TW 4000, Mining or Hunting 2000, Warrior 2000). So one of those popping a tech must have gotten one which gives soldier points. To find out who started with what I used DaveVs list (thanks for that Dave)

Slowcheetah Wang Kon (FIN/PRO) is of Inca (Mysticism/Agriculture, Quecha, Terrace)
ASMonkey is Hatty (SPI/CRE) of Mongolia (Wheel/Hunting, Keshik, Ger)
HitAnyKey is Brennus (SPI/CHA) of Ottoman (Wheel/Agriculture, Janissary, Hamman)
Meiz is Gandhi (SPI/PHI) of Khmer (Hunting/Mining, Ballista Elephant, Baray)

Slowcheetah: Myst/Agri = 0; 1 Warrior = 2000; nothing he can pop is enough for 14000 points
ASM: Wheel/Hunting = 6000; 1 Warrior = 2000; he can pop Archery, being worth the missing 6000
HitAnyKey: Wheel/Agri = 4000; 1 Warrior = 2000; nothing he can pop is enough for 14000 points
Meiz: Hunting/Mining = 4000; 1 Warrior = 2000; nothing he can pop is enough for 14000 points

So we can conclude that ASM got Archery from a hut. C&D being hard in a 18 player game? Hah!

[Serdoa]

Actually I am wrong with that ASM must have Archery. BW is 8000 not 10000 as I somehow remembered, Hm, lets see if any of the two is actually near enough for it to matter.