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[SPOILERS] 3 Players, 1 Civ, No Clues - Tatan, Nakor, and Serdoa are Darius of Rome

Nakor Wrote:Early turns can be so... slow... alright

If the alternative is a crazy warrior rush, then I'll take it. wink

Serdoa Wrote:(I haven't invested enough time in TR-calculations and I thought overseas-ones are worth more but I trust your word Tatan)

I never did sims to determine this 100%, but from the way I understand it the overseas bonus just gives you +100% yield--if the base yield for most domestic trade routes is 1cpt, then that means overseas domestic trade routes should only be getting 2cpt. I will test this more thoroughly, though.

Moved the scout:
[Image: Civ4ScreenShot0264.jpg]
Found your second food resource, Serdoa! A delicious dry plains wheat that is both far away and in the midst of the jungle! lol

I wasn't sure where to move the warrior, so I have not ended the turn yet.
Played in: PBEM 4 [Formerly Jowy's Peter of Egypt] | PBEM 10 [Napoleon of the Dutch] | PBEM 11 [Shaka of France] | EitB XVI [Valledia of the Amurites] | PB7 [Darius of Rome] | Diplomacy 3 [Austria-Hungary] | PBEMm/o vs AutomatedTeller
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[Image: Civ4ScreenShot0201-1.jpg]

Not sure either. We could move NE and hope no warrior comes out of the fog or move N and be safe for sure... Serdoa, feel free to play!

Have to agree with Serdoa, this is one of the worst starting positions I have seen in quite some time. We need more map info to see what is our best option for a second city.
TGL on Pangea... don't know if that is our lucky break, especially since we need BW and IW very soon to make this land productive...
Then again, there are a lot of forests that need chopping into something...
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I'd normally say lets move the warrior back. Right now though I am wondering if we should play more risky just because this start is so bad that we need some hut-luck or similar to make it salvagable.

Still... getting killed in the first 10 turns doesn't sound appealing either. I mean sure we are put out of our misery but somehow it feels wrong wink

edit: Moved still NE... somehow ingame the hope started to build up that there will be a grassland gems tile together with a wet corn... well, it had more forestes and jungles instead cry
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Okay, let's take a look at Agri - BW - AH and Agri - AH - BW

Agri - BW - AH
Turn 10 Agri comes in, onto BW (16T)
Turn 15 Worker done, start warrior
Turn 16 Worker moves to rice
Turn 17 Worker farms the rice
Turn 20 City grows to size 2, ETA BW drops to T24? Guess
Turn 22 Farm done, worker moves to forest on hill
Turn 23 Worker stands still?
Turn 24 BW in, city grows (think so) and worker starts chopping another worker, onto AH (9-10 turns), worker can chop untill AH is in.

Agri - AH - BW
Turn 10 Agri comes in, onto AH (14T)
Turn 15 Worker done, start warrior
Turn 16 Worker moves to rice
Turn 17 Worker farms rice
Turn 20 City frows to size 2, ETA AH drops to T22? Guess
Turn 22 Farm done, worker moves to cows, AH done, onto BW (13 turns, getting lower)
Turn 24 Worker pastures the cows
Turn 28 Pasture done, worker waits untill BW is done... (T32?)

These are just some rough estimates since I don't sandbox a lot (who would have guessed). But I think going BW after Agri will give our worker more to do and the chops will help us get our first settler out faster.

What do you guys think?
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Well for Agri -> AH -> BW see my post on page 3. For Agri -> BW -> AH see this micro sheet

[Image: T10AnotherMicroplan.JPG]

Basically at T37 we have the same as the Agri -> AH -> BW plan but lose out on some commerce and need one more chop for it. There is probably the possibility of a better micro-plan tbh, but I would think that thats the case for both plans so my feel is to go with the one I outlined on page 3 (micro-plan post for Agri->AH->BW).
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Okay, you make a valid case there.
I don't know if it is worth it farming the spices.
Getting chops earlier and the option to mine those hills just seems more powerfull to me then that cow. So, Tatan?

Another question: where do we see options for copper/iron/horses on the map?
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As for cow vs chops:

Pasture takes 4 turns and cow is 6 foodhammers / turn
chops take 4 turns (move in, 3 turns chopping) for 20 hammers. Thats 5 hammers / turn.

So, every turn the cow is improved we gain 3 more foodhammers then for the unimproved tile. And the worker can still chop. So I think correctly speaking we lose in the first 4 turns 20 hammers (because we do not chop in that time). Every turn after we win 3 foodhammers. So in 7 more turns we break-even and everything afterwards is a gain.

[Image: T10Choporimprove.JPG]

Hope it's readable.
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As for your other point about the spices: I bascially agree, I don't really think it is worth it. Thing is though, with the Agri first start our worker simply hasn't anything to do other then farming those tiles. We could make a run-through with working all the time the spices as soon as our worker is done. I am not sure that would work out much better though. And delaying our worker for some turns just so we can do something else with him (and therefore delaying improving the rice and generally improving our land) doesn't seem smart either.
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Ok, what if you follow Agr - BW and chop after farming the rice instead of farming the spice and maybe throug in a grassland riverside hill mine?
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When the rice is farmed we still miss 50 beakers to finish BW and be able to chop. Thats 5 turns research and even if we work all the time the spices after the worker finished we can only make up for 10 of those beakers. Delaying the worker by working the spices won't help either (not that I would ever consider really doing that).

Basically we are stuck with doing something for 5 turns with the worker and all he can do is move around and farm wink And as AH is finished earlier then BW AND is getting us more yield within 11 turns from discovering it I really don't see much reason to go for BW first.

Lastly, our settler will finish T37 earliest. There is no way to do it before T30 (and T30 would require an outright stupid way of playing) and so we will know where copper is (if we have it) before we need to decide where to settle.
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