[SPOILERS] Dazedroyalty - Move along! Nothing to see here

[dazedroyalty]

Okay, after the gchat with Sian, I drafted an email to him. I'm terrible at such things so I'd love to get feedback.

Sian,

I wanted to follow up with you from our gchat earlier about NAP extension and settling. I'm glad you brought it up because I was thinking about our NAP myself and I think it's important that settling be included since we're at the point in the game when there isn't simply tons of land left available. So let me lay out my thoughts on the topic in a way that will be clear and facilitate our arrangements moving forward.

1. It is my desire to maintain a positive relationship with your great nation as we work this out.

2. I understand that you feel that it is in "your land" and I do not argue that it's closer to your capital than mine. In my perspective, this map has many "contested" regions (tundra, jungle, two big islands and 4 small islands (marble islands are equal distant, therefore could be anyone's while stone clearly "belongs" to one civ). As such, to "claim" a contested region is something of a false assumption. The only way to claim a contested region, is to settle it. You have focused your efforts on claiming contested island areas and, as a result, have outsettled me and other players on islands. Meanwhile, I have focused on settling the jungle and have managed more of that than other players.

3. Allowing another player to purposefully settle my third ring is simply asking for trouble. The amount of military risk is simply too high. You could easily double move me (and vice versa) which introduces significantly higher tension into our relationship. Also, you'd essentially be stealing tiles from my established city.

As a result of these three things, here's my stance:

1. I am unwilling to accept a settlement directly on my border that is 3 tiles from Geometry. This is not negotiable.

2. I am willing to cede all settling rights to the south of Geometry and allow you uncontested settlement of the banana in any fashion that doesn't result in BFC overlap of our cities.

3. Unfortunately, this means that the fish would go to waste but preserves diplomatic and military peace.

I look forward to hearing your feedback,

Dazed

[scooter]

Xenu wants a NAP extension (yay!), except that he's trying to use it to settle the fish/banana spot next to my coastal city in the jungle.

I'm assuming this is supposed to say Sian and not Xenu? (about to read the rest of this, just thought I'd ask that first)

[dazedroyalty]

I'm assuming this is supposed to say Sian and not Xenu? (about to read the rest of this, just thought I'd ask that first)

Whoops! yes it's Sian

[scooter]

Seems to make more sense to me that you get the banana/fish site and you "cede" some sort of island spot somewhere. Now I don't know enough to know if that's exactly feasible, but in theory that's what makes the most sense to me. Your point about you prioritizing this section is dead-on IMO.

My suggestion is to offer the following:

Dazed gets: Banana/fish site
Sian gets: Permanent gift of banana and some island site you don't care about

You'll get your own banana up north but this seems like your best bet.

By the way, who made this map? I love it - it's fantastic. Was it Commodore? Regardless, great work whoever did this one.

[dazedroyalty]

Seems to make more sense to me that you get the banana/fish site and you "cede" some sort of island spot somewhere. Now I don't know enough to know if that's exactly feasible, but in theory that's what makes the most sense to me. Your point about you prioritizing this section is dead-on IMO.

My suggestion is to offer the following:

Dazed gets: Banana/fish site
Sian gets: Permanent gift of banana and some island site you don't care about

You'll get your own banana up north but this seems like your best bet.

By the way, who made this map? I love it - it's fantastic. Was it Commodore? Regardless, great work whoever did this one.

I don't think I can offer an island site since he already took all the ones that are between us except one that I need to have a good defensible border - if he settled it he could fork cities with a galley. Will show pictures later if I get the save before my inlaws arrive tonight.

trying to take the banana fish site myself seems like a no go politically too. This game has evidenced a very strong sense of "my" land based on the fact that the map is so closely mirrored. So this banana/fish are "Sian's". Instead of basing it on areas of control, he feels entitled. If i try to take both, it'll anatagnize him more than I want. That's why I'm willing to let him settle the banana but not the fish.

I really need help with the wording of the proposal more than anything. I wan to be firm on the "don't settle on me" but gracious in giving him the bananas. I just want to make sure my diplo is 1) clear, 2) straightforward and 3) with a good tone.

As to the map, that's commodore and I agree, it's an awesome map. My favorite I've played so far by FAR! Thanks, Commodore!

[scooter]

Wording suggestion:

1. I am unwilling to accept a settlement directly on my border that is 3 tiles from Geometry. This is not negotiable.

My suggested amendment:

1. I am not able to accept a settlement directly on my border that is 3 tiles from Geometry. Unfortunately, this one thing is not negotiable. I'm absolutely willing to work with you here, but this is the one requirement I have.

I hope that's not too over-the-top, but it still communicates that you aren't fooling around, but that wording is "softer" and sounds like a friendly & firm request rather than a cold one. Feel free to use, ditch, or modify this idea - this just jumped out at me as being a bit "cold." Rest of the message seems fine. About this:

trying to take the banana fish site myself seems like a no go politically too. This game has evidenced a very strong sense of "my" land based on the fact that the map is so closely mirrored. So this banana/fish are "Sian's". Instead of basing it on areas of control, he feels entitled. If i try to take both, it'll anatagnize him more than I want. That's why I'm willing to let him settle the banana but not the fish.

You don't have to necessarily take it yourself... But you could offer it. It's a negotiating tactic basically - offer him something like this. If he happens to accept it, then awesome. But if he rejects it, it makes the other deal (him missing the fish but settling bananas) seem not so bad. I've used this several times. So you could include a point #4 that looks something like this:

4) Alternatively, I could settle the banana/fish site. In return, I would not contest your right to settle <random island> spot despite the fact that it's closer to me [or the fact that you can get there quicker or w/e]. I'd also gift you banana permanently so long as you do not declare war on me. No pressure - I completely understand if you don't want to do this, but it's just an alternative if you don't like the idea of missing the fish.

Obviously that sounds a bit much like the way I type, but you get the general idea. Now, I have no idea if you can even think of a place that would work for <random island> spot, but if you can find anything, you can make the deal sounds plausible enough that he won't put up too much of a fight and he'll just settle and miss the fish.

[dazedroyalty]

I used some of your edits and sent it off. Sian agreed. He's settling SW of the banana and 66 of gems. Not my first choice but i'll just pump culture down there. I'm debating goint straight to library after Monument to make sure I have more culture sooner than Sian.

[Krill]

Gchat. Now.

This save is a travesty.

[dazedroyalty]

This game is over if Sian knows what he's doing:

tentative plan atm is massed knights on him ... got Feudalism this turn (starting to hammer out a couple of Longbows in my border cities), next turn i 1shot Machinery, and then Guilds should take 3-4 turns

In reference to slowcheetah. His GNP advantage is massive. The only good thing here is that slowcheetah has maces, cross bows, etc. Which means Sian is making a massive mistake-- don't attack the other guy with the best units. He shoudl attack me or Xenu. He has longbows for defense and knights on the offense? Bad meta decision. But I'm for it.

[dazedroyalty]

Sian is in desperate need of a smackdown. He's finishing the Great Library next turn (so he told Xenu), he just finished the Colossus and the Parthenon. Ugh. I'm trying to convince Xenu to fund me to galleons while he builds military. Then I'd gift him galleons to go raze Sian's coastal core. I get a clear economic advantage BUT Xenu is the one who ends up with an army which is not the good end of the deal to be on. But I really need the economic help and Xenu has the ability to build maces, which I don't have yet.

EDIT: I'm actually thinking about moving to Astro regardless of whether Xenu funds me. I'd throw in Construction to have catapults and build a lot of those while working to Astro. My one hope is that since Sian built the Colossus he'll be less inclined to go for Astronomy than he said way back