[SPOILER] Yell0w

[Yell0w]

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Hey, I'm pretty much open for anything, though I'd prefer early-mid military.
The most notable changes imo:
Foreign trade with +100% cottage growth. (I don't think it grows Enclaves +100%)
Republic is better and 1+commerce 1+hammer from town.

Astronomy events no longer give Golden Ages

Order spread improved
Crusaders str. 5 can use metals

Pillage values doubled
Lumbermills can be built in ancient forests

multiple leader do overs due to new financial (+25% gold in all cities faster money buildings) and no defender, so there are a lot more viable picks in my eyes especially if we play with unrestricted.

Mahala EXP/RAI/ING wanted to play her for a while anyways... isn't this a small map with torrodial wrap anyways

Mobility 1 can be taken by Siege Units

multiple CoE changes.... I dare to say a gold focused Mahala CoE strat seems attractive to me.

Industrious +25% Workers

Expansive/Industrious seems like a sick combo.

Beastmasters available earlier

Lurchips considerably buffed

Checked it. I can get at least 10 horsemen at turn 55-60 with bad hut luck. I think I'd go for Mahala but I'd appreciate your input.

[Mardoc]

Early-mid military, huh? And EitB.

Well, there's a lot that works in that set. Any opinions on style? Arcane army, Divine, mounted, slow?

Early military options (for doing the crush face, rather than receiving):

Clan of Embers
Doviello
Hippus

I tend not to be a fan of these in the free for all style of game that you're looking at. They can crush one neighbor, but fall behind everyone else. Except if you're using that early military for deterrance rather than conquest, in which case I'd go either for Jonas of the Clan or Rhoanna of the Hippus. Goal with one of these is to do a solid peaceful expansion, while being scary enough that no one bothers you.

Still, if you want to play a rush civ, I'll support that. It's been shown to be possible

Fun magical options:
Balseraphs
Calabim
Sheaim

Each has a signature unit that can be fun. Sheaim are the earliest, of course, while Calabim are later.

Quick to start, have their handicaps:
Grigori
Kuriotates

Mid-late game strength:
Elohim
Khazad
Ljosalfar
Malakim

[Mardoc]

Mahala EXP/RAI/ING wanted to play her for a while anyways... isn't this a small map with torrodial wrap anyways

multiple CoE changes.... I dare to say a gold focused Mahala CoE strat seems attractive to me.

Hmm, ok, so that's approximately what you're thinking. Very different than my usual approach, I'm going to have to think about how to make it work.

I'm not really a fan of mixing Raiders with the Clan, since most of their units are slow. Except...well, except if you're going for a pillage economy. Which, if you get some Goblin archers and wolf riders, could do pretty well. But I think I'd rather try that with the Kurios or the Hippus.

You might be able to have a lot of fun with Pyre Zombies, too.

I guess the main question is what sort of game you want to play. It's now a lot more possible to make it to the later game, but you're right that small toroid could let you do a lot with something more aggressive.

[Yell0w]

Checked it. I can get at least 10 horsemen at turn 55-60 with bad hut luck. I think I'd go for Mahala but I'd appreciate your input.

Hmm, ok, so that's approximately what you're thinking. Very different than my usual approach, I'm going to have to think about how to make it work.

I'm not really a fan of mixing Raiders with the Clan, since most of their units are slow. Except...well, except if you're going for a pillage economy. Which, if you get some Goblin archers and wolf riders, could do pretty well. But I think I'd rather try that with the Kurios or the Hippus.

You might be able to have a lot of fun with Pyre Zombies, too.

I guess the main question is what sort of game you want to play. It's now a lot more possible to make it to the later game, but you're right that small toroid could let you do a lot with something more aggressive.

It is very different from what I usually do, last two games I picked builder civs.
Ok here are the reasons:
With Mahala we can get two cities and around 10 horsemen (unpromoted though) at turn 55-60. Until then we should have no problem vs barbarians and can even pop a dungeon or two thanks to Lucian and the extra BM, depending on their xp we can think about using them in an attack as well. I think this is very early for horsemen. we can take one civilization I guess, and even pillage another. Then we defend what we have and EXPand, while trying to get as much pillage gold out of our horsemen as we can.
If we decide on going for CoE we can combine that with RoK or just leave it, get Nightwatch 6/5 which can cast hire nightwatch, and with slavery (I know bad civic) we have 50% chance to create a slave which we can upgrade immediately in the field.

I think it is about balancing teching and getting gold with expanding while waring constantly. I think the economic is the hardest to do here.

EDIT: scouts don't show that much in the military demographics so we can literally walk up to the enemy with scouts promote them and attack from the fog if we want to be really sneaky.

I think the key is slavery here because it allows us to refresh our troops in the field and continue warfare even with losses. The only thing I see a problem with is medics...

[Mardoc]

Checked it. I can get at least 10 horsemen at turn 55-60 with bad hut luck. I think I'd go for Mahala but I'd appreciate your input.

I'm confused. Mahala of the Hippus? Or Mahala of the Clan? Mahala of someone else?

Actually, looking at the thread, it looks like restricted leaders. So that'd be Mahala of the Doviello. Could still be fun, with horsemen or anything else. No Training Yards/Stables/etc is a nice boost they have.

The following seems to be agreed upon:

Diplomacy: On
Restricted leaders: Yes
Bans: Auric, Keelyn, Nox Noctis.
Game Speed: Quick
Unique Features: In, not near player's starting locations.
Lairs/Huts: On
Start Era: Ancient
Living World: On
Tech trading/vassals: Off

If you disagree with any of the above, please say so.

But you need a 2nd and 3rd pick. If you're going for the same gamestyle, I'd probably go with Tasunke of the Hippus and...um, not sure. Maybe Tebryn of the Sheaim? Or Jonas of the Clan?

EDIT: scouts don't show that much in the military demographics so we can literally walk up to the enemy with scouts promote them and attack from the fog if we want to be really sneaky.

No, the only field upgrades that actually work like that are melee line. Could follow Mist's lead and go for workers who upgrade to Sons of Asena . But, well - with a small map, you probably don't need to be super sneaky. Scouts upgrading inside your borders at the last minute is still good enough.

[Yell0w]

I'm confused. Mahala of the Hippus? Or Mahala of the Clan? Mahala of someone else?

Actually, looking at the thread, it looks like restricted leaders. So that'd be Mahala of the Doviello. Could still be fun, with horsemen or anything else. No Training Yards/Stables/etc is a nice boost they have.

Yeah sorry, Mahala of the Doviello.
Well... you need Stables and you need Training Yard for Immortals, but thats it. everything else is tech only. Nice Mana things too Body and Chaos.

But you need a 2nd and 3rd pick. If you're going for the same gamestyle, I'd probably go with Tasunke of the Hippus and...um, not sure. Maybe Tebryn of the Sheaim? Or Jonas of the Clan?


No, the only field upgrades that actually work like that are melee line. Could follow Mist's lead and go for workers who upgrade to Sons of Asena . But, well - with a small map, you probably don't need to be super sneaky. Scouts upgrading inside your borders at the last minute is still good enough.

Yeah I don't know I don't like the clan. 2nd would be Hippus. 3rd suggest something funny of the top of your head.

Well the thing is timing, we would need to send the scouts out while we build stables and then upgrade them which leads me to the question if thats even possible. Have to check.

[Mardoc]

Well the thing is timing, we would need to send the scouts out while we build stables and then upgrade them which leads me to the question if thats even possible. Have to check.

What I meant is that the scouts have to be in the BFC of a city with a stables, to upgrade to horsemen. The only Doviello upgrades that work anywhere on the map are worker -> Beastman -> Son of Asena -> rest of the melee line. Everything else works like normal.

Of course, the melee upgrades are super cheap, they don't use the same formula as normal. Which is still quite cheap with Mahala.

But...horsemen are very fast. So it's still not much warning for anyone. And you can add the worldspell at the last minute.

And as Mahala it's probably better to go for gold than for hammers, anyway, build everything by upgrades. We played a succession game with her at civfanatics, and for a lot of it we had thousands of gold in the bank, nothing to do with it.

3rd suggest something funny of the top of your head.

Balseraphs. :hat: Probably Perpentach.

[Yell0w]

What I meant is that the scouts have to be in the BFC of a city with a stables, to upgrade to horsemen. The only Doviello upgrades that work anywhere on the map are worker -> Beastman -> Son of Asena -> rest of the melee line. Everything else works like normal.

Thanks, don't have to look that up now.
I'm 99% sure you can upgrade slaves to the entire melee line as well.

But...horsemen are very fast. So it's still not much warning for anyone. And you can add the worldspell at the last minute.

Yeah... the WS kinda sucks.

And as Mahala it's probably better to go for gold than for hammers, anyway, build everything by upgrades. We played a succession game with her at civfanatics, and for a lot of it we had thousands of gold in the bank, nothing to do with it.

Thats the Plan, take good use of ingenuity.
Same for Hippus, get GoN and start pumping out horsemercs who can use metals.

Balseraphs. :hat: Probably Perpentach.

So:
1. Mahala
2. Tasunke
3. Perpentach

I really see it working to upgrade captured workers and created slaves into units. But what about the healing?
CoE has no culture bonus and gives gold, rok would be an alternative.

EDIT:

WHOA Nox Noctis is baned

[Mardoc]

So:
1. Mahala
2. Tasunke
3. Perpentach

Fine by me. Now just a matter of figuring out the best way to make it work.

I really see it working to upgrade captured workers and created slaves into units. But what about the healing?

Even if it doesn't, if we don't get enough workers and slaves - Beastmen and scouts are really cheap. We can build those, and upgrade them.

CoE has no culture bonus and gives gold, rok would be an alternative.

EDIT:

WHOA Nox Noctis is baned

Huh. I've pretty much ignored Esus' changes, not tried to figure them out. I may have to look into that.

Still, it's pretty deep in the tree for a rush civ. I like RoK better for that reason alone. Plus it looks like they work together, so we could do RoK first, Esus later. And...maybe we can get most of our gold from pillaging and razing cities

[Yell0w]

Still, it's pretty deep in the tree for a rush civ. I like RoK better for that reason alone. Plus it looks like they work together, so we could do RoK first, Esus later. And...maybe we can get most of our gold from pillaging and razing cities

played a little around with Mahala, barbarians are fucking crazy in my games.
Anyways done 12 Horsemen turn 60. You get a lot of gold from pillaging 26 from a farm 86 from a cottage and an upgrade costs 27 gold (scout ->horsemen)
CoE... no I thought you could get Nightwatch just like that but they need bowyers.
Thing is: if we wait till we got education we have horsemen with two upgrades... maybe worth waiting? We will see.