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[SPOILERS] Leader & Civ Selection Thread

Quote:Hmm, I actually have very little experience with toridal maintainence (edit: talking about city maintainence, you already said how awesome the civ maintainence reduction could be), just enough to know that it is annoying. Am I understanding you correctly that you place organized as the fourth best trait for this, after financial (which you don't want anyways), expansive, and creative (for non-Inca)?

Toroidal maintenace its a killer,at forth city 8-9 tiles frm capitol(i dont htink its a big distance at size 2 will ate 5-6gold/turn )and because of that i realy think order in a new city should be a very fast choped terace and getting quick carthoses up like second building(its not that much to asume a city will have 3 forests) and that city will gave beneffit very fast.
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Am I pushing too much on the snake/turn order thing in the public thread?

It's a bit too cliche, but we probably need to aim for either FIN or Pyramids with our leader selection. It's a cliche for a reason. wink
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I think we win without fin and without mids.Well if there will be nice placed stone, of course we will not pass the offer.
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Ah, finally approved to see the team forum. smile

Is maintenance really going to be that bad, even with toroidal? I thought Commodore said the map was set up at Prince difficulty? Organized is not a bad trait, but with FIN and EXP on the table.... If the team does not want to play FIN that is fine with me, but it is an intentionally sub-optimal choice if other teams are going to be FIN.

Khmer...meh. Betting that there will be early access to ivory to make the UU available when it can be most useful is a large gamble. And as the only civ able to build elephants, everyone else will make a major effort to deny ivory if at all possible. Big upside and big downside, which to my view is not that great when there will be civs available with guaranteed upside. Maybe not as big as having WEs when no one else can build them, but upside without risk.

Definitely hoping not to be fourth in the snake pick. You don't get the prime choices, and you don't even get a lot of info on other teams' intentions because everyone ahead of you does take a prime choice. frown
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I would also much prefer Fin to Org. However, if we get Inca (going off mackoti's example, which is probably the best Org set-up here) we are not going to be able to get Pacal and won't want Sury or Willem. In such a situation, Mehmed becomes attractive enough to at least consider.

As for the Khemer, Commodore recently mentioned that he would not screw them out of Ivory, suggesting it is fairly near to the start and making Khemer compete with Egypt imo.
Merovech's Mapmaking Guidelines:
0. Player Requests: The player's requests take precedence, even if they contradict the following guidelines.

1. Balance: The map must be balanced, both in regards to land quality and availability and in regards to special civilization features. A map may be wonderfully unique and surprising, but, if it is unbalanced, the game will suffer and the player's enjoyment will not be as high as it could be.

2. Identity and Enjoyment: The map should be interesting to play at all levels, from city placement and management to the border-created interactions between civilizations, and should include varied terrain. Flavor should enhance the inherent pleasure resulting from the underlying tile arrangements. The map should not be exceedingly lush, but it is better to err on the lush side than on the poor side when placing terrain.

3. Feel (Avoiding Gimmicks): The map should not be overwhelmed or dominated by the mapmaker's flavor. Embellishment of the map through the use of special improvements, barbarian units, and abnormal terrain can enhance the identity and enjoyment of the map, but should take a backseat to the more normal aspects of the map. The game should usually not revolve around the flavor, but merely be accented by it.

4. Realism: Where possible, the terrain of the map should be realistic. Jungles on desert tiles, or even next to desert tiles, should therefore have a very specific reason for existing. Rivers should run downhill or across level ground into bodies of water. Irrigated terrain should have a higher grassland to plains ratio than dry terrain. Mountain chains should cast rain shadows. Islands, mountains, and peninsulas should follow logical plate tectonics.
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on torodial maintainence is certainly a killer ... i believe one of the primary reasons both me and Mack won our respective 29's was due to Org being underestimated around these boards ... its certainly not unusual to see Maintainence going into double digits on a torodial map, eventhrough its only prince (in 33, currently i have a few cities that got a maintainence of ~12 at size 2, and thats Torodial/Prince)

as for Khmer, true, baray aren't the hottest thing around, but its still fairly usefull given that its still 1f for free, which is a half freepick specialist ... not worse than other UB's that give specialist slots.

I certainly wouldn't be opposed to see how Khmer could pan out ... WE is extremely strong, and given allowence to be the only one able to build them (as a subpar UU upgrade granted, but still better against humans than AI's given that AI's rarely mass mounted units) i'd rate them in the box just below the big civs (Inca and India) roughly equal to stuff such as Egypt or Byzans
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Sian Wrote:as for Khmer, true, baray aren't the hottest thing around, but its still fairly usefull given that its still 1f for free, which is a half freepick specialist ... not worse than other UB's that give specialist slots.

It's not 1f for free though, it's 1f for a 100h investment which is just not going to be worth it unless the health is necessary too. (And I would not expect health to be relevant until the industrial era especially on this handmade map.)

It is a decent UU but I'm not particularly excited about it.
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SevenSpirits Wrote:It's not 1f for free though, it's 1f for a 100h investment which is just not going to be worth it unless the health is necessary too. (And I would not expect health to be relevant until the industrial era especially on this handmade map.)

It is a decent UU but I'm not particularly excited about it.

Strongly agree. Picking the Khmer would be all about elephants, much as picking Rome is all about praetorians. And human opponents will be smart enough to build plenty of spears/pikes, so the elephants won't be nearly as overwhelming as they can be against the AI. I think we could get more benefit from other civs.
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haphazard1 Wrote:Strongly agree. Picking the Khmer would be all about elephants, much as picking Rome is all about praetorians. And human opponents will be smart enough to build plenty of spears/pikes, so the elephants won't be nearly as overwhelming as they can be against the AI. I think we could get more benefit from other civs.

Pikes don't worry me; Ballistaphants aren't going to be owning the map by the time Engineering comes around.

And Spears are only so scary, since they're 4 + 100% against 8 Str. Get 5XP on the Ballista, and spears no longer scare them: it takes Form on the Spear to get odds when attacking the WE (assuming full health), and when defending a spear needs an additional +35% beyond the innate +100% to be 50-50 against a Shock WE. There's a reason RBMod moved the WE to 7 Str with an additional +25% against Knights.
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add to that, that Ballistias specificly ignore stack defenders and target mounts first.
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