For a forum that prides itself on trying new things, for the love of all that is novel and interesting, please can we have a new QotM? - Krill

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Metagaming Thread - Understanding is Key to Victory

Cyneheard Wrote:And having dedlurked for Rego a fair bit, it's interesting how hard much harder diplo can be when the player/team has a reputation from previous games that won't easily change, no matter how we act this time around.

Yep, I was thinking about this - this is why I'd like to see a newer face or two get involved. Merovech has already expressed interest in this, so that might be good.

Also, we might find that certain teams respond better to certain players. That'll be a bit harder to discern, but if we can tell a difference, it's something that's worth exploiting.
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ATrain Wrote:And what will they think about our team members? Are we going to be pegged as a dangerous team? Are we more likely to see a dogpile due to our esteemed leaders?
It felt like a lot more of the lurkers that came out of the woodwork joined us compared to the other teams (myself included), so while we have a heavy top-end, the team doesn't appear to be very deep. Is that a good thing (new blood) or a bad thing (not as much experience actually playing)?
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Cheater Hater Wrote:It felt like a lot more of the lurkers that came out of the woodwork joined us compared to the other teams (myself included), so while we have a heavy top-end, the team doesn't appear to be very deep. Is that a good thing (new blood) or a bad thing (not as much experience actually playing)?

Probably both lol
Merovech's Mapmaking Guidelines:
0. Player Requests: The player's requests take precedence, even if they contradict the following guidelines.

1. Balance: The map must be balanced, both in regards to land quality and availability and in regards to special civilization features. A map may be wonderfully unique and surprising, but, if it is unbalanced, the game will suffer and the player's enjoyment will not be as high as it could be.

2. Identity and Enjoyment: The map should be interesting to play at all levels, from city placement and management to the border-created interactions between civilizations, and should include varied terrain. Flavor should enhance the inherent pleasure resulting from the underlying tile arrangements. The map should not be exceedingly lush, but it is better to err on the lush side than on the poor side when placing terrain.

3. Feel (Avoiding Gimmicks): The map should not be overwhelmed or dominated by the mapmaker's flavor. Embellishment of the map through the use of special improvements, barbarian units, and abnormal terrain can enhance the identity and enjoyment of the map, but should take a backseat to the more normal aspects of the map. The game should usually not revolve around the flavor, but merely be accented by it.

4. Realism: Where possible, the terrain of the map should be realistic. Jungles on desert tiles, or even next to desert tiles, should therefore have a very specific reason for existing. Rivers should run downhill or across level ground into bodies of water. Irrigated terrain should have a higher grassland to plains ratio than dry terrain. Mountain chains should cast rain shadows. Islands, mountains, and peninsulas should follow logical plate tectonics.
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Cheater Hater Wrote:It felt like a lot more of the lurkers that came out of the woodwork joined us compared to the other teams (myself included), so while we have a heavy top-end, the team doesn't appear to be very deep. Is that a good thing (new blood) or a bad thing (not as much experience actually playing)?

I think it's a good thing. Experience is very important, but at the same time RB has played so many games that if we're not burnt out, we're at least somewhat set in our ways.

For example, I have a hard time seeing Krill's team really listening to any of its other players if Krill's reasonably active.
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Cheater Hater Wrote:It felt like a lot more of the lurkers that came out of the woodwork joined us compared to the other teams (myself included), so while we have a heavy top-end, the team doesn't appear to be very deep. Is that a good thing (new blood) or a bad thing (not as much experience actually playing)?

IMO we have more excellent players than each of the other teams. We also got a very high number of "new" players, which I consider the second-most-useful category of player. Also I think we've avoided the problem LP/Krill/novice could face of being the single most-respected player on their team, and thus unnecessarily deferred to. I really couldn't be happier with our team composition. smile
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SevenSpirits Wrote:IMO we have more excellent players than each of the other teams. We also got a very high number of "new" players, which I consider the second-most-useful category of player. Also I think we've avoided the problem LP/Krill/novice could face of being the single most-respected player on their team, and thus unnecessarily deferred to. I really couldn't be happier with our team composition. smile
That's a very good point--I know I probably wouldn't have been as vocal as I have been (even if that's not necessarily a lot) if I knew I would probably get shot down.
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I'm actually learning more about my opponents from this thread then a lifetime of RB. Nice job guys.
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Cheater Hater Wrote:That's a very good point--I know I probably wouldn't have been as vocal as I have been (even if that's not necessarily a lot) if I knew I would probably get shot down.

That's good to hear. In all sincerity, each and every opinion is welcomed. It might be that some folk disagree with it, but the hope is that such discussion will help both parties improve. The new player may learn some useful tips and the veteran may realise that 'flavour of the month' is not always right.
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Ok, we have some map info before even moving. We have 1300 land tiles:

[Image: t0_land_totals.JPG]

That is above-average as predicted, so the starts will be somewhat roomy. To take a recent 5-player game as a comparison, PBEM32 was considered to be relatively big for 5 players, and that only had 1195 tiles. However, it's not necessarily massive either. If you want to take the first CFC BtS MTDG (the SANCTA game) as a comparison, that game had 1893 land tiles despite also being a 5 civ game. So this is certainly smaller than that - which was an enormous map.

To take things further, we know there are islands. Not only are there islands, but there are two different types of islands - reachable by galley and not reachable by galley. This reduces the amount of "true" land tiles in that much less than 1300 are actually on the primary continent, which means the spacing between civs will be slightly closer than you might initially guess.

So expect things to be a bit roomy, but if you have the idea that this will be as roomy as the SANCTA game, then scale your expectations a bit.
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One caveat - I'm fairly sure that peaks do count as land tiles for purposes of scoring. That MTDG I referenced had tons of mountain ranges, so number of cities/team will be a bit closer to that than I've implied as that game might have had 1893 land tiles, but it also had hundreds of peaks making the number a bit artificially high.
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