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Augustus of Arabia: Alliteration Isn't Always Amazing (ad hoc and Merovech)

I apologize, ad hoc-I made a poor risk last turn and, baring good luck, will lose an archer for no gain next turn (plako had an additional axeman). This caused a round of whips that might have otherwise gone to settlers and workers. I also made a worker movement error.

My tactical movement in this war has been pretty poor.

It was bad luck to have plako declare (although it was actually a very smart decision on his part), but I have made the situation worse than it could be. Also, the whole reason we needed the city that provoked plako? I made the call to place our pigs city for short-term gain, losing out on the invisible horses, which is a decision I still defend in a vacuum, but was completely the wrong decision here.
Merovech's Mapmaking Guidelines:
0. Player Requests: The player's requests take precedence, even if they contradict the following guidelines.

1. Balance: The map must be balanced, both in regards to land quality and availability and in regards to special civilization features. A map may be wonderfully unique and surprising, but, if it is unbalanced, the game will suffer and the player's enjoyment will not be as high as it could be.

2. Identity and Enjoyment: The map should be interesting to play at all levels, from city placement and management to the border-created interactions between civilizations, and should include varied terrain. Flavor should enhance the inherent pleasure resulting from the underlying tile arrangements. The map should not be exceedingly lush, but it is better to err on the lush side than on the poor side when placing terrain.

3. Feel (Avoiding Gimmicks): The map should not be overwhelmed or dominated by the mapmaker's flavor. Embellishment of the map through the use of special improvements, barbarian units, and abnormal terrain can enhance the identity and enjoyment of the map, but should take a backseat to the more normal aspects of the map. The game should usually not revolve around the flavor, but merely be accented by it.

4. Realism: Where possible, the terrain of the map should be realistic. Jungles on desert tiles, or even next to desert tiles, should therefore have a very specific reason for existing. Rivers should run downhill or across level ground into bodies of water. Irrigated terrain should have a higher grassland to plains ratio than dry terrain. Mountain chains should cast rain shadows. Islands, mountains, and peninsulas should follow logical plate tectonics.
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Does anyone know when plako is going to play? I don't want to double move him, but I also want to play before I go to bed.

I also don't want to ask in the tech thread, since there might be some team that doesn't know that we are at war.

I believe he is located in middle Europe, so it's really early in the morning where he is. Hopefully he will awaken before I fall asleep.
Merovech's Mapmaking Guidelines:
0. Player Requests: The player's requests take precedence, even if they contradict the following guidelines.

1. Balance: The map must be balanced, both in regards to land quality and availability and in regards to special civilization features. A map may be wonderfully unique and surprising, but, if it is unbalanced, the game will suffer and the player's enjoyment will not be as high as it could be.

2. Identity and Enjoyment: The map should be interesting to play at all levels, from city placement and management to the border-created interactions between civilizations, and should include varied terrain. Flavor should enhance the inherent pleasure resulting from the underlying tile arrangements. The map should not be exceedingly lush, but it is better to err on the lush side than on the poor side when placing terrain.

3. Feel (Avoiding Gimmicks): The map should not be overwhelmed or dominated by the mapmaker's flavor. Embellishment of the map through the use of special improvements, barbarian units, and abnormal terrain can enhance the identity and enjoyment of the map, but should take a backseat to the more normal aspects of the map. The game should usually not revolve around the flavor, but merely be accented by it.

4. Realism: Where possible, the terrain of the map should be realistic. Jungles on desert tiles, or even next to desert tiles, should therefore have a very specific reason for existing. Rivers should run downhill or across level ground into bodies of water. Irrigated terrain should have a higher grassland to plains ratio than dry terrain. Mountain chains should cast rain shadows. Islands, mountains, and peninsulas should follow logical plate tectonics.
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frown
Merovech's Mapmaking Guidelines:
0. Player Requests: The player's requests take precedence, even if they contradict the following guidelines.

1. Balance: The map must be balanced, both in regards to land quality and availability and in regards to special civilization features. A map may be wonderfully unique and surprising, but, if it is unbalanced, the game will suffer and the player's enjoyment will not be as high as it could be.

2. Identity and Enjoyment: The map should be interesting to play at all levels, from city placement and management to the border-created interactions between civilizations, and should include varied terrain. Flavor should enhance the inherent pleasure resulting from the underlying tile arrangements. The map should not be exceedingly lush, but it is better to err on the lush side than on the poor side when placing terrain.

3. Feel (Avoiding Gimmicks): The map should not be overwhelmed or dominated by the mapmaker's flavor. Embellishment of the map through the use of special improvements, barbarian units, and abnormal terrain can enhance the identity and enjoyment of the map, but should take a backseat to the more normal aspects of the map. The game should usually not revolve around the flavor, but merely be accented by it.

4. Realism: Where possible, the terrain of the map should be realistic. Jungles on desert tiles, or even next to desert tiles, should therefore have a very specific reason for existing. Rivers should run downhill or across level ground into bodies of water. Irrigated terrain should have a higher grassland to plains ratio than dry terrain. Mountain chains should cast rain shadows. Islands, mountains, and peninsulas should follow logical plate tectonics.
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what happened?
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plako wasn't accepting our peace proposals and seemed content to just push further into my territory, messing up the little worker micro plans that I had (and preventing from resettling for horses, but I didn't exactly show that I am prepared to almost immediately do that, and with military support), even though it had to be obvious to him that he couldn't take any cities. I don't think this war was actually that profitable to him, except that it set his only neighbor (so far) quite a bit back.

However, I spoke to soon. He accepted a 10-turn peace treaty in exchange for our world map. A tactically sound decision on his part-unit support probably outwieghed any raiding gold he was getting (most of our improvements are sea-based or further west and north than he ended up progressing). What I don't think he realizes is that we can resettle for horses in just a few turns, with all of our otherwise useless archers, and with a ten-turn treaty and a little pre-chopping, we should be able to build up a nice little chariot force to hold it. We are also getting iron-working in about 15 turns (I forget the exact amount, have to recheck), which is too late to matter if he declares war as soon as the treaty expires, but should give a nice boost if he doesn't. Actually, we can switch that to horseback riding (still saving gold) with little loss, but without copper, and effectively guaranteed iron, it should be helpful. Interestingly, plako already has iron working, since he has at least one jaguar. Hhe has copper, but I saw at least one jungle tile in his territory when I sent a scouting warrior behind his backlines. Hopefully that will slow him down, since he is the leader in score and much better than me in demographics (and I'm at the bottom middle, but not dead last in anything, I think).

He only has once source of copper connected, IIRC, and no horse or iron, and that one source of copper is located pretty close to the border with us. He can build jaguars without copper, but they don't fair so well against axes...

Full report to come later tonight, once I can finally start making plans, without having to worry about plako's army running around in my lands.
Merovech's Mapmaking Guidelines:
0. Player Requests: The player's requests take precedence, even if they contradict the following guidelines.

1. Balance: The map must be balanced, both in regards to land quality and availability and in regards to special civilization features. A map may be wonderfully unique and surprising, but, if it is unbalanced, the game will suffer and the player's enjoyment will not be as high as it could be.

2. Identity and Enjoyment: The map should be interesting to play at all levels, from city placement and management to the border-created interactions between civilizations, and should include varied terrain. Flavor should enhance the inherent pleasure resulting from the underlying tile arrangements. The map should not be exceedingly lush, but it is better to err on the lush side than on the poor side when placing terrain.

3. Feel (Avoiding Gimmicks): The map should not be overwhelmed or dominated by the mapmaker's flavor. Embellishment of the map through the use of special improvements, barbarian units, and abnormal terrain can enhance the identity and enjoyment of the map, but should take a backseat to the more normal aspects of the map. The game should usually not revolve around the flavor, but merely be accented by it.

4. Realism: Where possible, the terrain of the map should be realistic. Jungles on desert tiles, or even next to desert tiles, should therefore have a very specific reason for existing. Rivers should run downhill or across level ground into bodies of water. Irrigated terrain should have a higher grassland to plains ratio than dry terrain. Mountain chains should cast rain shadows. Islands, mountains, and peninsulas should follow logical plate tectonics.
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Uhh, teaser question: How valuable is a cottage turn? I finally (writing before pottery?!?) got a cottage down on a riverside grassland in the capital, and I now have the option of working two of the following three: The 2/0/2 cottage, a 4/1/0 dry plains wheat, and a 4/0/2 coastal clams. This is in addition to a 4/1/1 plains sheep and a 1/3/0 grass land mine I am building a settler, so all food can safely be considered to be foodhammers (which is why I am working the mine) and the 1 hammer from the wheat is not enough to activate the imperialistic bonus.

I am not yet sure of my worker micro, but I think that I will probably not chop into or whip this settler, and I have 0 overflow hammers into the settler. There are a few combinations that get me the settler at exactly 100/100 (remember, any overflow hammers will get cut pretty harshly by adjustment for the 60% bonus), in seven turns (no combinatioin gives a six-turn settler) plus the max overflow combination.

There is only one problem with my calculations, and this is because I do not know when the whip anger on my city is going to end (I have 1 unhappy person): This is completely my fault, as I did not mark when I whipped the capital (which actually stacked whip anger, since ad hoc had whipped it to build an archer [I believe on turn 62, so 14 turns ago], but the whip anger is down to just one unhappy caused by that). Sadly, I can't seem to scroll back on civstats far enough to see when I whipped. Lack of luxuries (We have not found a single pre-calender happy resource at all-I suspect there is one just out of site to the north, as ad hoc did not completely scout up that way, but any unit I send up there will no be able to get back in time to help defend if plako re-declares in ten turns. My best guess is that I whipped 6 or 7 turns ago, so at some point, I will lose that ship anger and pick up the third tile out of the three in 6 turns, meaning that I'm going to have to completely re-write the beautiful micro plans I just wrote below. Interesting note that I forgot previously: Angry citizens do not consume food if one builds a settler or worker.

Combination 1: Max Overflow: Work the wheat and the clams for 6 turns, then all three tiles for the 7th turn.
Settler in 7 turns with 12 hammers of base overflow. I believe this overflow is cut down to 7, from the formula (12/(1+.6)). Is this correct? Adjusted Overflow: 7 base hammers. Commerce From These Tiles: 16. Cottage Turns: 1.
If whip anger does not wear off: Remove 2 commerce and 1 cottage turn.

Combination 2: Most Cottage Turns/Most Commerce: Work the clams and the wheat for 1 turn, then the wheat and the cottage for three turns, then the clams and the cottage for two turns, then all three for the 7th turn. Adjusted Overflow: 0 base hammers Commerce From These Tiles: 20 Cottage Turns: 6.
Potential Problem: This relies on getting that additional person back for the 7th turn. If this does not occur, I must work the wheat and the clams and not the cottage on the last turn, losing 2 commerce and 1 cottage turn.

Combination 3: Most Cottage Turns, Not Relying on Whip Anger Removal: Work the clams and the wheat for 1 turn, then the wheat and the cottage for five turns, then all three for the last turn. Adjusted Overflow: 1 base hammer Commerce From These Tiles: 16 Cottage Turns: 6.
If whip anger does not wear off: Remove 2 commerce and 1 cottage turn.

In conclusion, the questions are basically, "Is 4 commerce worth 1 hammer?" and "Are 5 cottage turns and 4 commerce worth 7 hammers?"

Full report and pictures to come still later-I must ponder this. Advice welcome.


Uhh, edit: I'm thinking now that I whipped 4 turns ago, so I won't get the extra citizen back. Questions stay the same, all values lowered by 2 commerce and 1 cottage turn.
Merovech's Mapmaking Guidelines:
0. Player Requests: The player's requests take precedence, even if they contradict the following guidelines.

1. Balance: The map must be balanced, both in regards to land quality and availability and in regards to special civilization features. A map may be wonderfully unique and surprising, but, if it is unbalanced, the game will suffer and the player's enjoyment will not be as high as it could be.

2. Identity and Enjoyment: The map should be interesting to play at all levels, from city placement and management to the border-created interactions between civilizations, and should include varied terrain. Flavor should enhance the inherent pleasure resulting from the underlying tile arrangements. The map should not be exceedingly lush, but it is better to err on the lush side than on the poor side when placing terrain.

3. Feel (Avoiding Gimmicks): The map should not be overwhelmed or dominated by the mapmaker's flavor. Embellishment of the map through the use of special improvements, barbarian units, and abnormal terrain can enhance the identity and enjoyment of the map, but should take a backseat to the more normal aspects of the map. The game should usually not revolve around the flavor, but merely be accented by it.

4. Realism: Where possible, the terrain of the map should be realistic. Jungles on desert tiles, or even next to desert tiles, should therefore have a very specific reason for existing. Rivers should run downhill or across level ground into bodies of water. Irrigated terrain should have a higher grassland to plains ratio than dry terrain. Mountain chains should cast rain shadows. Islands, mountains, and peninsulas should follow logical plate tectonics.
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I remember Seven said once that he valued a cottage turn at a little over 1 commerce, not at the 3 commerce it gives in most situations (1 at each level of growth), because of the delayed impact of the commerce gain.

Edit: I am leaning in a certain direction for both questions, so don't worry if your trying to avoid "playing for me."
Merovech's Mapmaking Guidelines:
0. Player Requests: The player's requests take precedence, even if they contradict the following guidelines.

1. Balance: The map must be balanced, both in regards to land quality and availability and in regards to special civilization features. A map may be wonderfully unique and surprising, but, if it is unbalanced, the game will suffer and the player's enjoyment will not be as high as it could be.

2. Identity and Enjoyment: The map should be interesting to play at all levels, from city placement and management to the border-created interactions between civilizations, and should include varied terrain. Flavor should enhance the inherent pleasure resulting from the underlying tile arrangements. The map should not be exceedingly lush, but it is better to err on the lush side than on the poor side when placing terrain.

3. Feel (Avoiding Gimmicks): The map should not be overwhelmed or dominated by the mapmaker's flavor. Embellishment of the map through the use of special improvements, barbarian units, and abnormal terrain can enhance the identity and enjoyment of the map, but should take a backseat to the more normal aspects of the map. The game should usually not revolve around the flavor, but merely be accented by it.

4. Realism: Where possible, the terrain of the map should be realistic. Jungles on desert tiles, or even next to desert tiles, should therefore have a very specific reason for existing. Rivers should run downhill or across level ground into bodies of water. Irrigated terrain should have a higher grassland to plains ratio than dry terrain. Mountain chains should cast rain shadows. Islands, mountains, and peninsulas should follow logical plate tectonics.
Reply

(January 6th, 2013, 23:21)Merovech Wrote: In conclusion, the questions are basically, "Is 4 commerce worth 1 hammer?" and "Are 5 cottage turns and 4 commerce worth 7 hammers?"

Use 1 commerce = 3 points, 1 hammer = 5 points, 1 food = 8 points. So yes, 4 commerce is worth more than 1 hammer. I'm not sure how to value cottage turns, but eyeballing it I'd say 7 hammers is worth a lot more than 4 commerce and 5 cottage turns.

You can see what your whip anger counter is on by mousing over the whip button. If it says e.g. "Unhappy citizen for 17 turns" that means your whip counter is currently 7 (normal speed).
I have to run.
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(January 7th, 2013, 04:46)novice Wrote:
(January 6th, 2013, 23:21)Merovech Wrote: In conclusion, the questions are basically, "Is 4 commerce worth 1 hammer?" and "Are 5 cottage turns and 4 commerce worth 7 hammers?"

Use 1 commerce = 3 points, 1 hammer = 5 points, 1 food = 8 points. So yes, 4 commerce is worth more than 1 hammer. I'm not sure how to value cottage turns, but eyeballing it I'd say 7 hammers is worth a lot more than 4 commerce and 5 cottage turns.

You can see what your whip anger counter is on by mousing over the whip button. If it says e.g. "Unhappy citizen for 17 turns" that means your whip counter is currently 7 (normal speed).

If you have a realy good site where to get the setler and workers ready to improve that city than beter to get setler faster out,if setlers get out same time anyway or dont have everithing prepared go with the comerce.
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Dropbox is effing around, but plako just beat me to resettling the city...

Rushing to iron-working now, prioritizing commerce. Thanks for the advice, ya'll.

Excellent play from plako, can't fault him-I would have had to fight him eventually anyways.
Merovech's Mapmaking Guidelines:
0. Player Requests: The player's requests take precedence, even if they contradict the following guidelines.

1. Balance: The map must be balanced, both in regards to land quality and availability and in regards to special civilization features. A map may be wonderfully unique and surprising, but, if it is unbalanced, the game will suffer and the player's enjoyment will not be as high as it could be.

2. Identity and Enjoyment: The map should be interesting to play at all levels, from city placement and management to the border-created interactions between civilizations, and should include varied terrain. Flavor should enhance the inherent pleasure resulting from the underlying tile arrangements. The map should not be exceedingly lush, but it is better to err on the lush side than on the poor side when placing terrain.

3. Feel (Avoiding Gimmicks): The map should not be overwhelmed or dominated by the mapmaker's flavor. Embellishment of the map through the use of special improvements, barbarian units, and abnormal terrain can enhance the identity and enjoyment of the map, but should take a backseat to the more normal aspects of the map. The game should usually not revolve around the flavor, but merely be accented by it.

4. Realism: Where possible, the terrain of the map should be realistic. Jungles on desert tiles, or even next to desert tiles, should therefore have a very specific reason for existing. Rivers should run downhill or across level ground into bodies of water. Irrigated terrain should have a higher grassland to plains ratio than dry terrain. Mountain chains should cast rain shadows. Islands, mountains, and peninsulas should follow logical plate tectonics.
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