For a forum that prides itself on trying new things, for the love of all that is novel and interesting, please can we have a new QotM? - Krill

Create an account  

 
North Korea Part II- The Final Naming Scheme

(May 23rd, 2013, 15:31)Oxyphenbutazone Wrote: Black is our capital and will be the main commerce center. Our first GP will be a scientist for an academy here, and I intend to cottage almost every single tile. Later game, Oxford will almost certainly go here.

Agree, no problems with this.

(May 23rd, 2013, 15:31)Oxyphenbutazone Wrote: Yellow will be our second city and in the long term, it will be an ok hammer city. Short term though, this city is great. First, farm the corn, then mine the gold, and you're set. Once, I get writing, I'll whip a library here and stagnate at size 4 working the gold, corn and 2 scientists. This is a potential site for the heroic epic, with farms on most of the grassland tiles, it can make approximately 22h base production, which is pretty good.
Agree with Yellow. Not sure I'd want to stagnate at size 4 though. Stagnating at size 7 or 8 while working 3 or 4 cottages might be just as good.

(May 23rd, 2013, 15:31)Oxyphenbutazone Wrote: Blue will play a pivotal role in my insane great merchant bulb plan. The city will first build a monument, then a couple of workboats and then it is all about growing as large as possible. With a farm on the FP tile, the city can make +10 surplus at size 8, so the plan is to grow it to that size, and then stagnate working 5 merchant specialists.
Agree with the placement of this one. Don't see anything really wrong with building a monument if the placement helps enough specially if you can chop it out or work the plains hill mine.

Overall, I'm not really a fan of the specialist economy because I they can fall behind in land. More on this later.

(May 23rd, 2013, 15:31)Oxyphenbutazone Wrote: Red has a lot of crappy tiles, but it redeems the otherwise wasted cows and wheat, so it has it's place. It could potentially be placed, 1S, I'm not entirely sure. This city will never amount to a whole lot, but I guess it'll be a weakish commerce/production hybrid. I'll cottage the grasslands and workshop the plains and this city will be ok.
Not my favourite location. Agree that 1S or 1W would be just as good if not better. 1W gets the resources just as fast but loses 3 riverside tiles (farms?).

1 S takes more time to get it online but will be a decent naval site once your UB comes online. This is maybe looking too far ahead, but the maps have been really well made lately meaning that my assumption is that we'll make it to the late game. I prefer the 1S location and hope for the possibility of seafood. Chained farms, 2 watermills, workshops and a Maoi equivalent will make this a very strong late game city.

Forest chop helps to equalize the startup time relative to current location.

(May 23rd, 2013, 15:31)Oxyphenbutazone Wrote: Green is going to be the second cottage cheese site, after the capital. It'll also have decent production, but I still intend to place cottages on all of the grasslands and then a couple of the plains. Commerce all the way.
This one I'm just not seeing either. NWW I see as a monster production site in the mid game and a decent production site in the shorter term. Loses a dry wheat but gains a flood plain (2 total). Solid forests for startup. 5 grassland river tiles for farms, 3 hill mines. I see this as a worker pump and then later to a Heroic Epic possibly.

(May 23rd, 2013, 15:31)Oxyphenbutazone Wrote: Purple is the best city I could place that could work the wet corn and still be in a good and defensible location. It can swap off cottages with Green and it will have the food to work a bunch of plains cottages and mines. It also secures those wines, which is useful. This will be a surprisingly good city, considering the amount of desert in the BFC.
Undecided about this one. Especially if you consider that I'd want to move green. If you were receptive to moving green to my suggested location, then moving purple to SSE onto that plains hill to capture the wheat and flood plains while also becoming a future watermill/dike monster. Or a decent cottage site before that. Yeah, actually I like that new setup.

(May 23rd, 2013, 15:31)Oxyphenbutazone Wrote: Finally, Light Blue will be a very good production city. With it's lack of rivers, I don't really intend to cottage very much, but with a bunch of farms, mines and workshops, I can get around 30-35 hpt base. Another potential candidate for the Heroic Epic, the only disadvantage being that it is not very centerally located in my territory. Once I found it, I intend to get 100 culture in here ASAP, as that will make it very hard to attack.
Hmmmm, undecided here too. The incense is a non-factor as we'll eventually get it through culture and it isn't that great to work. That water up there is salt water? 1/0/2 means saltwater? Me initial feeling is that that's too far out. A city SS would get the cows, incences, and could work some farms/cottages from the capital's BFC. Then later on a city WW of the corn? Plain hill, lots of forests for both cities.

(May 23rd, 2013, 15:31)Oxyphenbutazone Wrote: So, just looking at my dotmap, the one thing strikes me is that I will not be doing a lot of whipping. Production, unlike food, is abundant. The only good places to whip are potentially the capital and Blue, but Blue is going to be needed for specialist action and the capital will be growing as tall as possible to help overcome this commerce poor terrain. This means that I'll be in caste system a decent amount of the time, so workshops are actually an ok tile. Something to think about.
Initially you have enough food (barely). Once your cities grow up, yeah its gonna be hard to come by. That helps justify your Civil service plan.
Reply

Ok. Grand strategy time. Sorry, if this is only semi-cohert,...I'm just really in a rush. frown

First, I'm a bit of a warmonger. Its just so fun! smile My impression of you, based on almost nothing other than your micro plan, is that you're a bit of a builder. Nothing wrong with that, its a fine trait in a no tech trading game. Just flagging that, if you're a builder and I'm more militaristic we'll probably butt heads on plans a bit, but it'll be for the greater good of the empire.

However, I see some potential advantages in being a war monger that may be specific to this game. Primarily, since this is a greens game there might be more players who could get caught with their pants down. Single player rewards builder. MP,....not so much. smile First time out for most people here a stack showing up out of nowhere can end their game in a hurry.

Having a production advantage (which it appears we'll have no trouble getting) and translating that into a military advantage could easily mean picking up some easy territory wins in a greens field. So I'd like to be contrarian in this respect. If our neighbours appear to be builders, let's be warmongers. If our neighbours appear to be warmongers,...well we'll have to work strictly on deterrants.

I don't really love the specialist economy because I find that you lose a production advantage and fall behind. So I'm definately more of a fan of a hybrid economy. Still, I don't mind your plan with GS then GM, GM, GM and it might even compliment a mad rexing/military conquest while running specialist to support a tanked economy.

So overall, I want to caution you against waiting for your UU for a big expansion push. You're probably just putting a natural idea out there but I think we'll encounter opportunities before that that we can seize if we play our cards right.
Reply

ON the yellow city. What would be the disadvantge of making this a commerce city?

+2F + 1oasis + 4 Corn - 2 gold + 1 farm. +6 food which can grow onto 4 grassland cottages and then another 4 plains cottages. Toss in the high trade wines plus a windmill or two,..?

This seems like a strong commerce site that has the production to build the infrastructure it needs.
Reply

Oh yes. On the military front I soooo want to take a crack at Azza.

Nothing personal about the guy, its just that he's been beaten up in so many games getting caught unprepared in the early part of the game. His thread title is just so hilarious.

I don't wish the guy ill in any way but I just so want his thread title to come true. lol
Reply

Thanks for the thoughtful commentary Mindy goodjob ok, some comments
Reply

(May 24th, 2013, 12:34)MindyMcCready Wrote: Agree with Yellow. Not sure I'd want to stagnate at size 4 though. Stagnating at size 7 or 8 while working 3 or 4 cottages might be just as good.

I meant stagnate at size 4, when working the scientists. Once I get the GS, I'll fire the scientists and grow to size 7 making 14 fhpt

(May 24th, 2013, 12:34)MindyMcCready Wrote: Not my favourite location. Agree that 1S or 1W would be just as good if not better. 1W gets the resources just as fast but loses 3 riverside tiles (farms?).

1 S takes more time to get it online but will be a decent naval site once your UB comes online. This is maybe looking too far ahead, but the maps have been really well made lately meaning that my assumption is that we'll make it to the late game. I prefer the 1S location and hope for the possibility of seafood. Chained farms, 2 watermills, workshops and a Maoi equivalent will make this a very strong late game city.

Forest chop helps to equalize the startup time relative to current location.

I agree, I realized that the location on the coast was better once I finished the dot map, but I really didn't want to spend another 20 minutes redoing the picture in gimp tongue

(May 24th, 2013, 12:34)MindyMcCready Wrote: This one I'm just not seeing either. NWW I see as a monster production site in the mid game and a decent production site in the shorter term. Loses a dry wheat but gains a flood plain (2 total). Solid forests for startup. 5 grassland river tiles for farms, 3 hill mines. I see this as a worker pump and then later to a Heroic Epic possibly.

I agree that this could be a pretty good spot, but I really don't need another low commerce, high hammer city. It's all about the utilization of land, and when I see a lush fertile valley, I want to cottage along it and make commerce cities. When I see a lot of plains and hills and then a couple of food resources, those are the spots I want to turn into worker pump/production cities.

(May 24th, 2013, 12:34)MindyMcCready Wrote: Hmmmm, undecided here too. The incense is a non-factor as we'll eventually get it through culture and it isn't that great to work. That water up there is salt water? 1/0/2 means saltwater? Me initial feeling is that that's too far out. A city SS would get the cows, incences, and could work some farms/cottages from the capital's BFC. Then later on a city WW of the corn? Plain hill, lots of forests for both cities.

Huh, I like this idea a lot. Obviously I'll need to scout a little more, but I agree that your set-up is superior.

(May 24th, 2013, 13:09)MindyMcCready Wrote: ON the yellow city. What would be the disadvantge of making this a commerce city?

+2F + 1oasis + 4 Corn - 2 gold + 1 farm. +6 food which can grow onto 4 grassland cottages and then another 4 plains cottages. Toss in the high trade wines plus a windmill or two,..?

This seems like a strong commerce site that has the production to build the infrastructure it needs.

No rivers, lots of hills and desert. 4 cottages and a gold resource is not a good commerce city, it's a half-assed one.
Reply

(May 24th, 2013, 13:02)MindyMcCready Wrote: Ok. Grand strategy time. Sorry, if this is only semi-cohert,...I'm just really in a rush. frown

First, I'm a bit of a warmonger. Its just so fun! smile My impression of you, based on almost nothing other than your micro plan, is that you're a bit of a builder. Nothing wrong with that, its a fine trait in a no tech trading game. Just flagging that, if you're a builder and I'm more militaristic we'll probably butt heads on plans a bit, but it'll be for the greater good of the empire.

However, I see some potential advantages in being a war monger that may be specific to this game. Primarily, since this is a greens game there might be more players who could get caught with their pants down. Single player rewards builder. MP,....not so much. smile First time out for most people here a stack showing up out of nowhere can end their game in a hurry.

Having a production advantage (which it appears we'll have no trouble getting) and translating that into a military advantage could easily mean picking up some easy territory wins in a greens field. So I'd like to be contrarian in this respect. If our neighbours appear to be builders, let's be warmongers. If our neighbours appear to be warmongers,...well we'll have to work strictly on deterrants.

I don't really love the specialist economy because I find that you lose a production advantage and fall behind. So I'm definately more of a fan of a hybrid economy. Still, I don't mind your plan with GS then GM, GM, GM and it might even compliment a mad rexing/military conquest while running specialist to support a tanked economy.

So overall, I want to caution you against waiting for your UU for a big expansion push. You're probably just putting a natural idea out there but I think we'll encounter opportunities before that that we can seize if we play our cards right.

Hmm, I'm not entirely sure what kind of player I am, because I haven't really played civ 4 mp before lol

In this game, I just conquered another civ and am riding that along with a GA to a nice position

I think you're getting an impression of me as a builder, because I haven't even met anyone yet! I mean, if I think war will be advantageous for us, I'm all for it, but given our seemingly isolated start, I don't really see the benefits of a whole lot of warring. Of course, this game plan can be amended if it turns out someone is really close. I mean, let's not pick out our targets before knowing how close they are to us lol no matter how hilarious it would be to attack Azza...

As for your comments on a specialist economy, I agree, that's why I'm not really running one. I'm not building the pyramids with no immediate source of stone and I intend to be cottaging as much as possible. The only major specialist action will be at blue dot, which is really all about bulbing for MC and CS.

Right now, I'm thinking of playing this one like Krill in PB5, overcoming poor land by growing very tall and utilizing my terrain as efficiently as possible, with the obvious differences

1) PB5 was played using a mod that rewarded sparsely whipping and growing tall a lot more than base BTS
2) Krill is a much, much better player than me

Maybe if Krill is reading this he could comment on how similar the two situations are, I'm just spitballing here...
Reply

Scouting has revealed more "food resources" rolleye




Oh, and some interesting news




It appears we are in the south

Next turn Airstrip One will grow to size 2, working a second FP to just have enough commerce to finish BW 1 turn earlier. Completely accidental? Maybe. But, for some reason I'm still happy about it...
Reply

Alright more scouting,




More early game luxuries jive I would have preferred food resources, but I'll take the opportunity to have an even higher early happy cap.




Overview, with signs for planned city sites (sorry, I'm not wasted another half hour of my life using gimp). Note the 1t BW research, I'm really hoping to find copper close to one of my planned city sites because I don't have plans for an early IW unless I have to. My worker finished farming the rice 2 turns ago. Last turn he farmed the FP for one turn and now he moved the the forested hill to the south just in time for BW research. Just showing off my (mediocre) micro skills...
Reply

Alright, I was really worried last night that I would wake up to find no copper anywhere close... survey says




dancing dancing Very nice, the capitals third ring borders will pop to encompass the copper so we can get it hooked around t55 which is fine with this isolated start. Animal Farm is now a very nice production city. The desert copper is alright, but I still don't think we'll settle towards it. We actually have another source of copper to the south, and an 0-5-0 tile is nothing to write home about.




Here's our sothern copper, a strong 2-4-0 tile. I think X marks the spot for a good island city, it can share one crab with Liberia, it picks up the meh 3-2-1 PH sheep tile and it redeems the otherwise unused copper tile. IC trade routes would be very nice, especially if we continue to not have contact with anybody. Possible Moai site too.




Finally screenshot of revealed territory so I can have more fun playing in my sandbox. Land seems to be pretty good in the east, hopefully we'll meet somebody soon so Mindy can start telling me to beat them over the head lol
Reply



Forum Jump: