(May 11th, 2013, 07:02)Plunder Wrote: I hope nobody else goes with the same naming scheme then, maybe one of the global lurkers can warn us is this is the case. And if not, provide us with lots of suggestions
From my Civ MP group I learned the noob mistake of: "nukes are balanced"
Yes, it's a little reminiscent of one of Krill's themes, things that make him angry. Well if we notice someone else has the same theme, "pizza and pasta" it is then
(May 11th, 2013, 07:21)WilliamLP Wrote: Anyway, again it's awesome to have your input! So you know my personal style is to say anything and defend ideas really strongly and then change my mind when I eventually realize I'm wrong. So hopefully my tone never comes across as dismissive. We seem to be at similar levels with this game with knowing concepts but not being sure exactly how that translates to specific micro decisions.
Good to hear! I feel like I kinda barged in here, so if you think I impose myself too much on your game, please let me know. I don't think your tone is dismissive at al, your bring up some good points.
I would really love to bring my civ mp skill to some higher level, but my usual mp group is more casual and peace loving (until nukes come, then I am their favourite target).
(May 11th, 2013, 07:31)Plunder Wrote: Good to hear! I feel like I kinda barged in here, so if you think I impose myself too much on your game, please let me know. I don't think your tone is dismissive at al, your bring up some good points.
I would really love to bring my civ mp skill to some higher level, but my usual mp group is more casual and peace loving (until nukes come, then I am their favourite target).
Thanks, you have good points too, and I'm sure can correct me on some really stupid things I'd miss inevitably. When we actually get in game (it may not be for a few days from the looks of it) I'll give you the password too so you can look around when you want.
Heh, I've never actually had nukes used against me; I very rarely play that far into the tech tree. The MP I've played is probably even more casual than what you're talking about. Have you followed a lot of reports here? For me, PB2 was epic level internet drama, it filled the role of Reality TV for me when it was going
Our MP games are often at fast-setting, and people rarely go to war. The first game I played I wiped a player very very early in the game with a lot of axemen (city name suggestion: unconnected copper), I think he still bears a grudge ;-).
I think I follow one of the more common paths to RB, after stumbling upon Sulla's website. I've read all his MP reports, some even twice :P And I started following some of the PB games here. Currently I follow PB 9 and the Demogame (city name suggestion: 'quasi pink-dot').
I've read PB2 only from Sulla's point of view, but yes, that was a lot of drama. Let's hope we won't have that in this game though! We have only AI-diplomacy right?
(May 11th, 2013, 08:15)Jowy Wrote: A bigger reason for PB2 drama was the highly varying skill levels of the players.
Not a problem in a greens game
Yeah, good on you for sticking with the site for years and stepping up your game. No offense but nobody would have complained that your skill level was too high for this game back then!
Nothing to do but analyze this start some more, I guess...
1. Pros of settling 1W:
- Probably slightly faster start, with the +1H in capital for work boats.
- Decent 1/3/1 hill mine is available.
- Can scout NE first to see if there's food on the hidden flat tile.
- Strong capital if we could somehow land colossus. (Unlikely?)
2. Pros of SIP:
- 10 forests in the fat cross, instead of 6 for 1W. If we're making a play at a key wonder, this could be critical. E.g. GLH is so good that some people ban it here, we have cheap lighthouses and need fishing anyway, going for it isn't completely nuts.
- Probably stronger capital in the middle to late game, with many more cottages.
- Maybe more micro options for sharing tiles with future cities.
- 4+1H plains mine has some use for micro as EXP.
3. Now I'm thinking harder and harder about this:
Scout SE. This reveals two tiles (of the Y's) that could be food. If it's compelling, settle 1S. Otherwise roll the dice and settle 1N.
Pros:
- This gives us 6 chances for tiles that could be Agri tiles that we wouldn't get if we settled in place: the two that would be revealed to the south, and the 4 to the north if we take the 1N option.
- More forests and land tiles, like SIP, also with the available 1/3/1 river mine, and the plains hill. More options for min/maxing EXP down the road.
Cons:
- If there's food NNE, we don't know when moving the settler N, but we wouldn't lose it either. We just lose 1 turn from SIP.
- We lose a clam. Clams aren't extremely compelling tiles before a LH, and could be claimed by another city though.
- If no food, still, then ouch. But we're still basically just 1 turn off from SIP.
- Settling destroys a forest.
You missed a pro and a con about settling 1W. Due to worker and workboat transit times, moving 1W means that each clam gets I proved 1t sooner but the pig best improved 1t later.
Merovech's Mapmaking Guidelines:
0. Player Requests: The player's requests take precedence, even if they contradict the following guidelines.
1. Balance: The map must be balanced, both in regards to land quality and availability and in regards to special civilization features. A map may be wonderfully unique and surprising, but, if it is unbalanced, the game will suffer and the player's enjoyment will not be as high as it could be.
2. Identity and Enjoyment: The map should be interesting to play at all levels, from city placement and management to the border-created interactions between civilizations, and should include varied terrain. Flavor should enhance the inherent pleasure resulting from the underlying tile arrangements. The map should not be exceedingly lush, but it is better to err on the lush side than on the poor side when placing terrain.
3. Feel (Avoiding Gimmicks): The map should not be overwhelmed or dominated by the mapmaker's flavor. Embellishment of the map through the use of special improvements, barbarian units, and abnormal terrain can enhance the identity and enjoyment of the map, but should take a backseat to the more normal aspects of the map. The game should usually not revolve around the flavor, but merely be accented by it.
4. Realism: Where possible, the terrain of the map should be realistic. Jungles on desert tiles, or even next to desert tiles, should therefore have a very specific reason for existing. Rivers should run downhill or across level ground into bodies of water. Irrigated terrain should have a higher grassland to plains ratio than dry terrain. Mountain chains should cast rain shadows. Islands, mountains, and peninsulas should follow logical plate tectonics.
1N and 1S wouldn't provide any defence bonus (something not unimportant I learned from pitboss 9 with several boat-attacks early in the game), so I would vote against that.
Should we really make a choice depending on whether or not we can land a (popular) wonder in the future with 9 opponents, 3 of them industrial? We'll probably already have a somewhat slow start. Beside, forest that don't go to our capital probably go to our 2nd and 3rd city. So, with 1W we might give up a chance on a wonder in our capital, but in return we'll have faster growing 2nd and 3rd cities....
My vote is on scout NE.
SE would uncover more tiles, that is true, but the only reasonable move for the settler would be 1S. 2S is more sea, so I don't think it would be a great place to settle. Additionally it takes the best cottage spot. The discussion is mainly about SIP or 1W, If we move NE, we uncover 4 unknown tiles for our SIP-bfc while SE only uncovers 3 unknown more tiles for the SIP-bfc (since 2S is sea)
I'm really torn between SIP and 1W.
(also borrowing from you: )
1W is
-less workable tiles (opposite coast)
-loss of one turn
-less forest to chop for the capital
-less cottage space
+strong moai capital
+a bit faster start
+loss of 1 hammer and 1 commerce
+clams online earlier (due to transit times and production(?))
SIP
-less directly workable tiles (we might need to road instead, semi-lost-worker turn)
+stronger late-game
I think if we move NE, we only uncover 2 unknown tiles. EE and EEN are grass forests for sure, and I don't think those can have resources?
Being devil's advocate, isn't there a chance something to the south would make you want to settle 1S? What if it shows corn and grass gems or gold? (Unlikely, but can't rule it out.)
Defense bonus is a big deal in border cities, but in the capital? I haven't been following PB9 but a competitive Civ's game hinged on how well they could defend their capital city?
Anyway, I'm torn anyway, and at this moment would go along with you for 1W After seeing what's in the two north tiles. It's probably the most rational safe thing.
All 1N has going for it is that there's some chance of a fantastic capital and a fast start if the "X" and "Z" tiles are awesome. But if the chance fails it turns a 5/10 meh start (settle 1W) to a 4/10 meh start.
On the other hand 1W allows two turns of scouting before making the final decision, though going back at that point would cost 2 turns!
![[Image: 0-start2.jpg]](https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/38600485/civ/0-start2.jpg)
