Another map script, this one's not mirrored: Torusland

[Lord Parkin]

Seven and I just discovered a minor bug with the Torusland map script: the latitude is set to 45 degrees everywhere, meaning it is not possible to build the Space Elevator in any city. Thus it will be impossible to build the Space Elevator in any game currently running with a Torusland map.

[T-hawk]

Interesting thought experiment. How would a space elevator work on a toroidal planet anyway? I guess it would in fact have a quite narrow range of buildable latitudes.

[Lord Parkin]

Interesting thought experiment. How would a space elevator work on a toroidal planet anyway? I guess it would in fact have a quite narrow range of buildable latitudes.

The 60 degree range of Space Elevator latitudes in Civ4 is already rather generous for a spherical planet. I imagine you'd want at most half that for a toroidal planet - presuming that the top of the map in Civ4 represents the middle of the inner surface (180 degrees difference in latitude from the middle of the Civ4 map rather than 90 degrees). You couldn't have a true space elevator going to the centre of the torus (at the top of the Civ4 map), since that would be sitting at an unstable point and you'd need a continual supply of propellant to maintain its position. It would also be functionally a bit useless, since the primary purpose of a space elevator is to reduce the delta-v requirements to reach other bodies, and you'd have to burn additional fuel to escape sitting in the centre of the torus relative to flying around the outside. So assuming the torus is rotating about an axis perpendicular to the land mass, the only useful place to put a space elevator would seem to be in the middle of the outer surface.

[SevenSpirits]

Personally I wouldn't call it a bug, though I can see a justification for changing it. I did intentionally set the latitude to 45 degrees everywhere because 1) it's supposed to not care where the seams are so the latitude value needs to be the same everywhere and 2) 45 degrees seemed like a fine medium value that is thematically accurate (IIRC it results in the forest growths being of the medium graphical style).

With regard to the Space Elevator though, while I'd rather that no one can build it than that only some people can, it would be even better if everyone can build it, even though that is extremely unrealistic for a toroidal world. So I'm checking about other side effects of changing the latitude but I'm considering to have it set to 30 everywhere instead of 45.

One issue with making a tiny, inconsequential change like this in a map script though is that probably most people won't download the update, so when someone makes you a map using this script, you might be surprised to find in the modern era that they were using an older version of the script and your plan won't work.

[Lord Parkin]

Personally I wouldn't call it a bug, though I can see a justification for changing it. I did intentionally set the latitude to 45 degrees everywhere because 1) it's supposed to not care where the seams are so the latitude value needs to be the same everywhere and 2) 45 degrees seemed like a fine medium value that is thematically accurate (IIRC it results in the forest growths being of the medium graphical style).

Fair enough.

With regard to the Space Elevator though, while I'd rather that no one can build it than that only some people can, it would be even better if everyone can build it, even though that is extremely unrealistic for a toroidal world. So I'm checking about other side effects of changing the latitude but I'm considering to have it set to 30 everywhere instead of 45.

Of course, from a balance perspective there's no question that everyone should be able to build it rather than no-one. Although, it's more balanced to not have it in the game at all than to have it buildable only by a third of the world's cities - a shame if the wonder is removed, but at least there's no question that everyone's on the same footing.

One issue with making a tiny, inconsequential change like this in a map script though is that probably most people won't download the update, so when someone makes you a map using this script, you might be surprised to find in the modern era that they were using an older version of the script and your plan won't work.

If it's a lot of trouble in terms of changes in the map balance don't worry too much. Though if it's an easy correction, better to make it now than later I reckon. It's a minor issue, but fixing it would still be appreciated.

[zakalwe]

I can't remember if map scripts have the ability to place signs, but if they do, it might be an idea to place a version number sign at each start location. Or maybe rename the starting settler, so the player doesn't have to spend time removing the sign.

[NobleHelium]

Personally I wouldn't call it a bug, though I can see a justification for changing it. I did intentionally set the latitude to 45 degrees everywhere because 1) it's supposed to not care where the seams are so the latitude value needs to be the same everywhere and 2) 45 degrees seemed like a fine medium value that is thematically accurate (IIRC it results in the forest growths being of the medium graphical style).

With regard to the Space Elevator though, while I'd rather that no one can build it than that only some people can, it would be even better if everyone can build it, even though that is extremely unrealistic for a toroidal world. So I'm checking about other side effects of changing the latitude but I'm considering to have it set to 30 everywhere instead of 45.

One issue with making a tiny, inconsequential change like this in a map script though is that probably most people won't download the update, so when someone makes you a map using this script, you might be surprised to find in the modern era that they were using an older version of the script and your plan won't work.

I think you should make the change, yes. It's possible to verify ahead of time whether the Space Elevator is buildable by going into one of your cities and checking the tooltip for the wonder on the technology screen or 'pedia list (but not the entry). If the "can only build...latitude..." line in red is present, that means the current city does not qualify. A lack of such a line means it does qualify. (You can also check whether you've unlocked the HE/WP by this method if you've forgotten.)

[Nicolae Carpathia]

Pretty sure Space Elevator has won multiple "Worse Wonder In Civ4" awards in CFC.

[TheSunIsDark]

Pretty sure Space Elevator has won multiple "Worse Wonder In Civ4" awards in CFC.

Only in BTS... in Vanilla and Warlords the one winning the award was probably Chichen Itza. But a tech and 2000 hammers away from the space race? Robotics is only worth getting for Mech Infs.

[TheSunIsDark]

Wow... the Hamlets (maybe even Villages or Towns) spawned are overpowered, especially for a FIN leader.