[Spoilers] Fintourist and Old Harry have nothing to see here

[Fintourist]

Hykephalos definitely won't reveal anything new, so I think moving onto the tile is a bit of a risk. We should only do it if we need to take the city immediately and can't wait for the stack.

Yeah, I also tested this. Sentry unit vision rules were not quite clear to me previously. But yeah, let's keep Hykephalos with the stack and add a 2nd bowman to the tile NE of Nibru.

Unless... Do you know what kind of odds (and expected losses?) would we have to kill that archer+warrior pair with 2 bows + 2 chariots + spear next turn? We might consider it because removing 2 archers instead of 1 is costly too..

Any idea when the game continues? Did sunrise answer anything?

[Old Harry]

I think we have to wait for our stack. If we're trying to take the city because Mack might raze it then taking it and putting one or two injured units in it isn't going to stop Mack razing it. The stack will be in Konigs this turn, then sits next to Nibru next turn, then we take the city the turn after. Unfortunately even if we give our axes cover we only get 20% on archers, so hopefully we can take the city before he finishes another...

A question is how much do we want to send forward and how much should we hold back in case of YM aggression towards Cannae or Gallipoli?

Another question is whether offering peace for Nibru once our stack is within defending range would be sensible or possible? Would it even work next turn? Unfortunately our war turns are set up as m_h -> YM -> us so if we ask for it and m_h gives it YM can still sweep in and take it before we can get any units into the city. The only legitimate way around this that I can think of is offering m_h a cease-fire, moving our units into the city and then asking for the city in return for a strat resource or a happy. Convoluted?

Sunrise won't be in the right city again until Monday, so we get a whole weekend off!

[Fintourist]

I think we have to wait for our stack. If we're trying to take the city because Mack might raze it then taking it and putting one or two injured units in it isn't going to stop Mack razing it. The stack will be in Konigs this turn, then sits next to Nibru next turn, then we take the city the turn after. Unfortunately even if we give our axes cover we only get 20% on archers, so hopefully we can take the city before he finishes another...

Note that if we would take the city next turn we could complete the road and move whatever we want into Nibru. 20 % is annoyingly low, but that still sounds like axes could do a lot of damage so it's not impossible that we only lose 1 axe per killed archer. If we lose 4-5 axes we need to pay even more attention to suttree's power graph so that we survive any aggression once our peace runs out.

A question is how much do we want to send forward and how much should we hold back in case of YM aggression towards Cannae or Gallipoli?

Enough that we take the city for sure if m_h still owns it. Note again, that if yurimack takes the city, we can road the tile NE of Nibru assuming he has not also wiped our stack (and worker on the tile).

Another question is whether offering peace for Nibru once our stack is within defending range would be sensible or possible? Would it even work next turn? Unfortunately our war turns are set up as m_h -> YM -> us so if we ask for it and m_h gives it YM can still sweep in and take it before we can get any units into the city.

M_h says no, but we could try it. I would actually prefer killing mackoti's units in the city because they are with great likelyhood 2-movers and don't get defensive bonuses, but if he snipes Nibru from us he surely razes it.

The only legitimate way around this that I can think of is offering m_h a cease-fire, moving our units into the city and then asking for the city in return for a strat resource or a happy. Convoluted?

We would also need an open borders agreement..

Sunrise won't be in the right city again until Monday, so we get a whole weekend off!

Civless weekend feels actually good!

[Old Harry]

Note that if we would take the city next turn we could complete the road and move whatever we want into Nibru.

I don't think that's true.

[Fintourist]

Note that if we would take the city next turn we could complete the road and move whatever we want into Nibru.

I don't think that's true.

Oh yeah, it's 3 tiles away..

EDIT: so leaving part of our stack SW of Königs is possibly the most flexible option?

[Old Harry]

Maybe, although it means we can't use the units if we have to fight for the city...

[Old Harry]

I just logged in for a quick look. Mackoti has yet to play, so we can't move anything in theatre yet, but when we do I think we can get visibility on the two tiles W and NW of Nibru by moving Hykephalos to the iron.

Workers:
- 2 next to Koniggratz - one could move to road the iron or rice, the other could chop that jungle. I'd rather road iron at this point.
- 1 south of Agincourt - I'd like those cottages for BoP, but this guy could move south to support Konigs and Nibru leaving the other worker to build cottages. He will either:
- - Waste a turn moving
- - Put a turn into a cottage on the plains SW of Agincourt and chop the jungle E of Gallipoli
- - Chop the hill jungle NE of Gallipoli
- - something else
- At the rice if Rowain moves to the jungle and the worker roads next turn instead of finishing the chop we get 91% odds of winning. I think that probably isn't high enough to risk a worker for is it?

Other than that I think everything other than the warzone is straightforward.

[Fintourist]

I just logged in for a quick look. Mackoti has yet to play, so we can't move anything in theatre yet, but when we do I think we can get visibility on the two tiles W and NW of Nibru by moving Hykephalos to the iron.

I like this idea! Just to clarify, I've been mixing up our chariot names and Hykephalos is actually our medic chariot, but here we mean of course our sentry chariot

Workers:
- 2 next to Koniggratz - one could move to road the iron or rice, the other could chop that jungle. I'd rather road iron at this point.

Yeah, I like roading iron + chopping that jungle.

- 1 south of Agincourt - I'd like those cottages for BoP, but this guy could move south to support Konigs and Nibru leaving the other worker to build cottages. He will either:
- - Waste a turn moving
- - Put a turn into a cottage on the plains SW of Agincourt and chop the jungle E of Gallipoli
- - Chop the hill jungle NE of Gallipoli
- - something else

I analyzed this for quite a while. And I vote that the first worker moves this turn SW of Agincourt, pre-cottages and then moves E of Gallipoli next turn so that we can start growing one more riverside grassland cottage ASAP. The other worker can then build the grass cottages for BoP (either via pre-cottaging or wasting 1 worker turn).

As stated earlier, our island cities really want more worker support, but I calculated it and we can just manage with our current "support team". Note that the new worker that will be born in France needs to finish the cottage W of France before moving onto jungle chopping duties so that the city will have an improved tile at size 6. The road from France to Omdurman needs to wait a bit, but we want to road grassland silk tile and the hill N of Omdurman so that we have at least a road between cities N & O.

- At the rice if Rowain moves to the jungle and the worker roads next turn instead of finishing the chop we get 91% odds of winning. I think that probably isn't high enough to risk a worker for is it?

Yeah, no reason to risk our worker at those odds. The potential gain would be just 2 food, because we are going to get clams improved anyways and delaying the rice farm is therefore not that costly. Btw, let's not forget moving LP south this turn

[Fintourist]

Mackoti finished the turn so I moved the sentry chariot onto iron tile - nothing new was revealed. I think more or less everything has been discussed, but I'll let you check the latest comments in thread and finish the turn

[Old Harry]

Okay, I should be able to play in a couple of hours. I'll do those worker moves if you don't beat me to it.

Do you think Suttree is still maintaining the turn split with us or just doesn't get to play until the evening?