Welcome to Pitboss 18 and the thread belonging to Victoria of the Aztecs.
Starring: Fintourist - complaining and infinitely iterated micro plans :Coffee: Old Harry - boundless dumb optimism and taking pictures TheHumanHydra - complicated Latin, warfare and possibly even logging into the game
And introducing our guest star Retep as NobleHelium
Anyone else want to join us? After our magnificent second third place in post-count and thread-views for PB13 we stand a good chance of winning this one due to the lack of a Pindicooter team .
Lakes or Continents type of map. Roughly balanced, but having some differentiation from player to player. A bit less breathing room than in standard RB games.
"I'm trying to keep Imp and Org roughly even at Monarch level; it's looking lusher than PB13 but not a green hell like the PB16 Duel League."
Host: Caledorn Admin: Sullla, Commodore and Sunrise Map maker: Commodore Starting date: When we've 33 signups (Sullla controlling the 34th monitoring civ) Mod: RBmod's latest version. Minor tweaks are cooked up in the RBmod thread so please check things from there. Leaders/civs: PB13 Method - Random roll - Players have 2 chances to pass - Can't pass 3rd roll. All passed leaders/civs come back to rereolling rounds. Difficulty: Monarch Speed: Normal Vassals: off TT: off Huts: on Events: on Barbs: on Espionage: on Diplo: AI-diplo Double moves: Don't be a jerk. Peace time or when you're not planning to start war play as soon as it is possible and most times no need to be taking into account potential double moves. During war preparation turn and war times double moves are not allowed. Other:
* No city gifting or trading
* No using trade window to communicate (e.g. using letters or numbers in a way that could be interpreted something else than a real trade offer)
Change log 2.0.6.2 Wrote:Traits:
Financial: +1 commerce on all non-river tiles that have 2+ commerce. +100% production of Bank.
Expansive: +2 health per city. +35% production of Worker, Work Boat. +100% production of Market, Aqueduct, Grocer, Harbor.
Creative: +2 culture per city. +100% production of Theatre, Colloseum, Observatory.
Charismatic: +2 happiness. +1 happiness from Broadcast Tower. -25% XP needed for promotions.
Protective: Free CG1 promo for archery and gunpowder units. +100 production of Granary, Walls.
Imperialistic: +100% Great General emergence. +60% production of Settler. +100% production of Custom House
Aggressive: Free C1 promo for melee and gunpowder units. -25% city maintenance [Not shown in trait description. Bonus not shown in interface. Bonus is multiplicative with other maintenance modifiers. Final displayed city maintenance value is correct and includes this bonus.] +100% production of Barracks, Stable, Drydock.
Philosophical: +150% Great Person production, +100% production of University
Organized, Industrious, Spiritual: No change from BtS
Civs:
America: UU is now Minuteman a Rifleman replacement with free Guerilla 1 and Woodsman 1. Mall is now a Grocer replacement that gives +1 happy from Deer, Sugar, Hit Musicals, Hit Movies, Hit Singles.
Arabia: Starts with Mysticism/Agriculture, instead of Mysticism/The Wheel. Madrassa cost decreased to 70 hammers from 90.
Byzantium: Starts with Mysticism/Fishing, instead of Mysticism/The Wheel. Cataphracts are 11 strength instead of 12, and are first strike immune (like normal knights).
Carthage: Cothon cost decreased to 80 hammers from 100 (now costs same as Harbor). Numidian Cavalry changed to a HA replacement with free C1.
Celts: Dun now gives G2, not G1. Dun civilopedia updated to list unit classes that recieve G2 promotion.
France: Salon +1 free specialist, -1 free artist.
Germany: UU is now the Kanone, a Cannon that costs 80 hammers instead of 100. Assembly Plant now available at Steam Power.
Inca: Terraces now give +1 culture instead of +2. Quechua loses combat 1.
India: Starts with Mysticism/Wheel instead of Mysticism/Mining. The Fast Worker now has Mobility (-1 Terrain Movement Costs), but does not get an extra movement point compared to normal workers.
Japan: UB is now Pagoda, an Observatory replacement with +10% hammers.
Korea: Starts with Agriculture/Minging, instead of Mysticism/Mining.
Portugal: Feitoria now costs 120h, from 180h.
Rome: Praetorian changed to a Swordsman replacement with +1 strength. Forum increased to +35% GPP generation from +25%.
Russia: UB is now Research Institute, a university replacement with +1 scientist specialist.
Vikings: Trading Post gives naval units Flanking 1
Leaders:
Kublai Khan: Leader traits are now Charismatic, Creative, changed from Aggressive, Creative.
Civics:
Police State: Now Medium upkeep.
Vassalage: Now provides free support for military units as well (meaning Pacifism is cheaper), and is Medium Upkeep.
Slavery: 30h for the 1st pop, 20h for the 2nd pop and subsequent pops. So, 30/50/70/90. On Quick speed, that's 20/33/46/60.
Serfdom: +75% Worker Speed, +1h for Watermills and Windmills.
Free Market: No longer provides -25% Corporate Costs. Now provides +25% Trade Route Yield.
Environmentalism: No longer provides +25% Corporate Costs, or +2 commerce to windmills. Provides +1 gold per specialist, +1c to farms and pastures, +2c to forest preserves, and Low upkeep. Swapped with Free Speech. Now available at Liberalism.
Free Speech: Now Low upkeep, swapped with Environmentalism. Now available at Scientific Method.
State property: Now Medium upkeep
Wonders, Projects:
Wonder Resource Doublers: All wonders that had +100% production with a specific resource now only have +50% production with that resource.
Rushmore: Now -50% WW, (from -25%).
Red Cross: 200h.
West Point: 550h, +5XP. Now requires a lvl 5 unit (17XP/13XP for Charismatic).
Great Lighthouse: Now +1 trade route instead of +2 trade routes, enabled at Masonry, but needs lighthouse and Sailing (no functional change in the tech requirements but makes F6 look less cluttered).
SoZ: no WW effect. Now +3XP, 200 hammers, no building prerequisites. No longer gets +100% production from Ivory.
The Internet: Now a wonder. 2k cost, +15% beakers in every city, +2 scientist gpp, double production speed with copper. No longer a project.
Cristo Redentur: +100% SPI production, -50% Anarchy instead of -100%.
SDI: Removed from the game
Base unit changes:
Scouts: Require no tech. Every player starts with a scout instead of a warrior.
Swordsman (and all replacements): +50% city attack
Archer (and all replacements): +30% defence against Swordsmen.
War Elephants: Now 7 str, +50% vs. Mounted units.
Trebuchet: Now requires Machinery, instead of Engineering.
SAM Infantr
y: 75% interception chance (up form 40%)
Destroyer: Now enabled at Artillery (not Combustion) (requires Oil OR Uranium)
Transport: Now enabled at Artillery (not Combustion) (requires Oil OR Uranium)
Mobile Artillery: Can now load guided Missiles and Tac Nukes (as Submarines and Missile Cruisers do). No longer require oil.
Gunships decreased to 3 moves.
ICBM: No longer unlimited range, but long enough so that they will out distance your army and navy easily, and they can be rebased. Loses the nuke tag. Does not need Manhattern project to be built.
iCost: 450h
iAirCombatLimit: 75
iAirCombat: 160
iCollateralDamageLimit: 75%
iCollateralDamageMaxUnits: 12
iAirRange: 36
Tactical Nukes: Now S80 1shot units that can bombard units, cause collateral damage to 5 units, cannot be intercepted. Loses the nuke tag. Does not need Manhattern project to be built. Full list of changes:
iCost: 200h
iAirCombatLimit: 75
iAirCombat: 80
iCollateralDamageLimit: 75%
iCollateralDamageMaxUnits: 5
iAirRange: 4
Guided Missiles: Can bombard units, tiles and cultural defence, cause collateral damage to 2 units, cannot be intercepted. Full list of changes (underline means original stat, for comparison):
iCost: 60h
iBombRate: 16
iAirCombatLimit: 75
iAirCombat: 40
iCollateralDamage: 100
iCollateralDamageLimit: 50%
iCollateralDamageMaxUnits: 1
iAirRange: 4
Flanking: Flanking strength (used to calculate damage from flanking strikes) or all units reduced by 50%.
Buildings:
Barracks: increased cost to 60 hammers, +1 culture.
Jails: now -50% War Weariness.
Castles (and replacement UB): no longer decrease bombardment rate of catapults or trebuchets.
Technology:
Known Tech Bonus changed to per player bonus.The known civ bonus is multiplied so that it is based on the era that the most advanced player is in with following equation:
Ancient: No bonus
Classical: +2% per met player with tech, max +50% (no further bonus after 25 players)
Medieval: +4% per met player with tech, max +50% (no further bonus after 13 players, 13th is only +2%)
Rennaissance: +6% per met player with tech, max +50% (no further bonus after 9 players, 9th is only +2%)
Industrial: +8% per met player with tech, max +75% (no further bonus after 10 players, 10th is only +3%)
Modern: +8% per met player with tech, max +75% (no further bonus after 10 players, 10th is only +3%)
Future: +8% per met player with tech, max +75% (no further bonus after 10 players, 10th is only +3%)
Hunting: Enables pastures, cost increased by 50% from 40 to 60. No longer enables camps.
Animal Husbandry: Enables camps. No longer enables pastures.
Archery: Base tech cost decreased by two thirds, from 60 to 40.
Astronomy: Requires Code of Laws as mandatory prerequisite in addition to Calendar and Optics. No longer requires Paper.
Metal Casting: Cost reduced to 300.
Alphabet: No longer enables tech trading, allows Open Borders. Cost reduced to 250.
Writing: No longer enables OB.
Paper enables Tech Trading. Requires Metal Casting as mandatory prerequisite.
Renaissance era technology prices increased by a percentage of base BtS tech cost as follows:
Education: +25%
PP: +25%
Nationalism: +25%
Gunpowder: +25%
Astronomy: +25%
Economics: +50%
Liberalism: +50%
Replaceable Parts: +50%
Military Tradition: +50%
Constitution: +50%
Chemistry: +50%
Democracy: +75%
Rifling: +75%
Corporation: +75%
Military Science: +75%
Steel: +75%
Steam Power: +75%
Artillery: +100%
Assembly Line: +100%
Scientific Method: +100%
Railroad: +100%
Cost of all subsequent techs increased by 100%
All medieval and earlier techs are untradeable:
The untradeable techs are as follows: Fishing, The Wheel, Agriculture, Hunting, Mysticism, Mining, Sailing, Pottery, Animal Husbandry, Archery, Meditation, Polytheism, Masonry, Horseback Riding, Priesthood, Monotheism, Bronze Working, Writing, Metal Casting, Iron Working, Aesthetics, Mathematics, Alphabet, Monarchy, Compass, Literature, Calendar, Construction, Currency, Machinery, Drama, Engineering, Code of Laws, Feudalism, Optics, Music, Philosophy, Civil Service, Theology, Divine Right, Paper, Guilds, Banking
Espionage:
Switch Civic, Switch Religion, City Revolt,Counter Espionage, and Destroy Production spy missions removed.
Costs of all active spy missions doubled.
Discounts to spy missions due to religious effects removed (owning holy city, religion present in city).
Spies now spawn with "Secretive", and cannot see tiles except the one they're standing on.
The No Espionage game option now works properly:
GSpy points are converted into Great Merchant points.
Espionage no longer gets converted into culture.
Cultural expansion now happens at normal values.
Spies cannot be built.
Graphs are always visible on contact.
Tile Changes:
Watermills: +1 base hammers, no longer receives +1h at Rep Parts.
Workshops: +1 base hammers, no longer receives +1h at Chemistry.
Mines: +1h at Rep Parts.
Quarry: +1h at Rep Parts.
Whaling Boats: Enabled at Sailing, not Optics. Otherwise unchanged.
Game Mechanics:
The Draft: Rifles now cost 2 pop to draft. A city must now end a draft at size 6 instead of size 5 (So size 8 to draft a rifle, size 7 to draft a musket).
Corporations: Completely removed from the game.
Culture required to achieve legendary border pop on Quick Speed changed from 25000 to 33000
Events:
The following events have been removed from the game:
Negative Events:
1. Forest Fire
5. Washed out
10 Careless apprentice
11. Famine
12. Slave revolt
15. Farm Bandits
18. Fugitive
19. Pestilence
21. Faux Pas
22. Joyous Wedding
23. Wedding Feud
24. Left at the Altar
26. Tornado
29. Looters
30. Brothers in need
31. Hurricane
32. Cyclone
33. Tsunami
34. Monsoon
35. Blizzard
36. Volcano
37. Dust Bowl
42. Clunker Coal
43. Sour crude
50. Mining accident
52. SetbackS
54. Great depression
55. Bermuda triangle
70. Influenza
71. Solo Flight
77. Ancient olympics
78. Modern olympics
80. Earth day
92. Cigarette Smoker
93. Heroic Gesture
94. Great Mediator
99. The Huns
100. The Vandals
101. the Goths
102. The Philistines
103. The Vedic Aryans
104. Holy ritual
132. Spoiled grain
135. Industrial fire
155. Slave revolt warning
160. Defecting agent
161. Jail
162. Spy discovered
163. Nuclear protests
165. Broken Dam
169. Toxcatl
170. Dissident Priest
172. Rogue station
174. Impeachment
Remove (Too good):
9. Hymns and sculptures
20. Marathon
28. Bards tale
64. Federal reserve
139. Partisans
167. Golden Buddha
Coastal Blockade now has a range of 1 square around the blockader, instead of 3 squares.
Circumnavigation requires 55% of the world map be coast or ocean tiles.
AP Resolutions: Declare War (on a non-member), Force Peace (between two members), Religious victory, and Assign City are no longer eligible resolution actions.
Fail-gold: You never get fail-gold if you also completed the wonder somewhere else (so no National Wonder fail-gold, or doubling up on a wonder to guarantee yourself a paycheck. The game still informs you that you received "0 gold" from your hammers).
Hut techs: Can only gain techs from the first three rows of the tech screen:
Toroidal maps: Now return city maintenance as if the map were Cylindrical.
Maximum number of players is now 40, up from 18.
Included additional bug fixes:
Trade route turn order bug.
Foreign trade route cities lost permanently when your city using those routes is destroyed (fix is taken from BTS unofficial patch).
Build culture double production.
Build wealth/research/culture + production automation double production.
Proposed trades including cities, where the cities no longer exist to be trades, are not cancelled (note: I consider this a bug because proposed trades are already cancelled if a player lacks the requisite e.g. resources/gold. could be considered not a bug).
Production decay counter on a type of build (e.g. axeman) is not reset after completing one if the next item in the queue is of the same type (fix is taken from BTS unofficial patch).
Feature growth/disappearance rates, and bonus discovery (mine pop) rates, do not scale with game speed.
Barb spawning mechanics (stolen from SevenSpirits):
Barbs are spawned for each landmass individually. The game will spawn barbs up to a max of one barb per 50 (on prince) unowned tiles on the landmass. This is why islands (smaller than 50 tiles) won't get barbs.
At other difficulties, unowned land tiles per barb unit:
Also: how many barbs spawn per turn on a landmass? It's one, plus one more for every four missing units. So if a landmass supports 20 barbs, and there are currently 4 on it, then there are 16 missing, so 1+4=5 will be created.
Aaand lets add some content.. Here are our first reactions to our pairing along with some spam. Mild PB13 spoilers, but well, nothing really:
Fintourist:
hey!
I survived my exam.. tomorrow the next one
has suttree's pretty annoying post or anything else changed your feelings about PB18?
Old Harry:
Hi there!
Sorry, been out swimming
Fintourist:
no problem!
applied mathematics + hangover today!
a good combo
Old Harry:
I actually really liked Suttree's post - we're never going to see eye-to-eye over this game, but at least it tells us why he did what he did.
Sounds painful!
Fintourist:
yeah, obviously his post was not too flattering and you no that I'm a bit quick.tempered..
Old Harry:
He was a bit abusive, but I thought he shared it out between both sides...
Fintourist:
know*
that's true, tweedlers and monkeys..
Old Harry:
Its your most endearing trait other than solid micro...
I'm way too easy going, so I think we compliment each other!
Fintourist:
well, I don't want make anyone to hate you because I rant about everything..
Old Harry:
Ha! I think everyone gets bored of my reasonable weighing of the arguments and and only reads for your rants!
Fintourist:
at least I share my feelings!
Old Harry:
Anyway, Vicky of Aztec is pretty exciting - economic trait and expansion trait...
What do you think?
Fintourist:
yep, it's solid
so you're still interested in a new game?
Old Harry:
Also I imagine that played well Sacraficial alters should be brilliant
Fintourist:
assuming time management works as we discussed?
Old Harry:
Yeah, so long as you play the first couple of months, I'll take over when you get too busy...
Fintourist:
SA is a good UU, but its nerfed because of nerfed whipping
Old Harry:
Or more useful because of nerfed whipping...
Fintourist:
UB*
I like it mostly because it's 90 hammers while courthouse is 120
Old Harry:
That too
Fintourist:
but if we don't have as much happiness as in PB13, reduced whip clock can be useful too
Old Harry:
also we could get a Woody III super medic easy with Jaguars...
The only thing we need is lots of food.
Fintourist:
yeah, and jaguars should have +50 % city attack, so woody 2 jaguars can be quite sneaky
(because of change in sword attributes in new RBMod version)
Old Harry:
Oh yeah...
Fintourist:
assuming we did not learn anything from suttree and still are aggressive in early game
Old Harry:
Crappy starting techs though
Fintourist:
yeah, although RBMod has improved hunting
but yeah, we want pigs
Old Harry:
we need pigs, sheep or cows at the start
Fintourist:
Old Harry:
(I just rolled a sandbox to play in and got two plains cows)
Fintourist:
and we really want a bureaucracy capital this time, because FIN is still all about cottages
Old Harry:
Yep, if we start on the coast we might even need to wander
Fintourist:
mmmaybe, probably it just screws us though
there must be something good visible
Old Harry:
I wonder if Commodore is hand-crafting the whole lot or using a script?
Fintourist:
no idea..
FIN and SA kind of work well together: we work cottages instead of mines -> we grow faster -> we can whip more
IMP should help us nicely early, we just need immediately some cottages so that we can keep expanding and still get Currency and CoL early, whicl allow us to continue pushing
Old Harry:
With IMP we want to get to currency pretty quick, but if we go that way someone is bound to get CoL via Priesthood quicker.
Fintourist:
ha, we think very similarly :D
Old Harry:
So no confucianism...
lets just try to adopt a neighbour's religion
Fintourist:
33 person game, religion is difficult
Old Harry:
this time
Fintourist:
if our start has pigs everywhere we can consider meditation first
but I won't say definite no for CoL via Priesthood, but there is no guarantee that we would get Confu and trade routes are probably stronger boost than SAs
Old Harry:
I should play PB13 now, but I want to experiment with Vicky...
Fintourist:
ha, we will have time for that! There are so many things that still need to happen before 33 players play T0
Btw, the fact that Commodore published everyone's pairs mean that you know what leaders are still in the deck. There are leaders such as Pacal, Sury and Hammurabi who are not assigned (I like hammurabi), overall I'm satisfied with our combo so probably no reason to risk a reroll though.
Old Harry:
I was a bit surprised he published it publicly. Hammurabi would be pretty good on a big torroid
but do the traits mesh or get in each other's way?
Fintourist:
with hammurabi? well a bit, ORG reduces civic costs, AGG city maintenance so there is no antisynergy. However courthouse has anti-synergy with AGG (it's only -37.5 % building). 60 hammer building for -37.5 % reduction is still reasonable though.
Old Harry:
Ah, well I'm happy with our combo (although I'll miss SPI). Okay, I'll go play the turn now and bother you if I think of any other questions...
Fintourist:
sure! I'll be there! FIN/IMP is a lot more boring than AGG/SPI, but I'm sure we manage to amuse ourselves
Fintourist:
hey one question, should I announce that we are hoping for a ded-lurker who can play couple of turns? I'm pretty sure THH can't do it
Old Harry:
I think other teams are going to need the help more - if neither of us can get to it we could ask Commodore or Sulla to play for us.
But there will be no harm asking.
Fintourist:
yeah, maybe some anonymous guy, who has been lurking a while but not created an account
Old Harry:
Sure, that would be good
Fintourist:
ok, I probably type something later today or tomorrow
Fintourist:
and while I'm spamming: we need a clever thread name!
"Old Tourists stroll into the land of poop, again"
Old Harry:
Full of poop?
Fintourist:
sure
I'm trusting you to come up with something more clever though
Old Harry:
I'll see what I can do...
(ie fat chance)
I think our thread spamming tactics will be a strong early expansion followed by growing tall via more interesting but not so frequent reports (as if I could avoid spam-ranting).
As I told Fintourist, I may be able to log in this time since I may be installing Windows on my computer soon. I think we're on the same page about this already, but just to be clear at the outset I don't want any turn-playing responsibilities other than very occasionally filling in for a turn when neither of you can play (you really don't want me playing any more than that anyway ). Also PB13 has taught me I regretfully cannot make any guarantees as to the frequency or wisdom of my posts (you've probably noticed I haven't posted anything substantial for several weeks in PB13; I've had stuff going on and don't know what to say anyway). Just wanted to say this stuff at the start so I don't have to apologize for my negligence later.
On a happier note, and considering the above disclaimers, I'm honoured to have been asked to be on the team again. Thankfully mackoti doesn't appear to be in this game (yet; he seems to have a habit of coming in as a substitute and staying to take the cake) so you'll just have Krovice, plako, and a couple others to beat for the victory. If mackoti does take over for someone, I suggest our strategy be to immediately load our entire military including MP onto ships and attack him no matter where in the world he is, before he has time to turn his civ's fortunes around and steal our pile of dung. Sounds reasonable, right guys? Guys? Oh ...
Hey retep, we could do with some extra complaining power! If we don't get a lot of moaning in at the start then people won't be nearly so impressed about our mid-table finish come the end of the game.
.
- Or Did We? - Fintourist rates our chances
)
![[Image: IMP%20early%20game.JPG]](https://dl.dropbox.com/s/8qcv7do01g9gygk/IMP%20early%20game.JPG)
![[Image: PB18%20Known-tech%20bonus.PNG]](https://dl.dropbox.com/s/j9qno9anq5q72a4/PB18%20Known-tech%20bonus.PNG)
If mackoti does take over for someone, I suggest our strategy be to immediately load our entire military including MP onto ships and attack him no matter where in the world he is, before he has time to turn his civ's fortunes around and steal our pile of dung. Sounds reasonable, right guys? Guys? Oh ...
