EitB v12 Wishlist/Progress

[Tasunke]

Hmm ... Yes, the War Tortoise is an interesting contraption.

11/19, 1 move, +50% vs mounted .... and CANNOT use metals ... compare to BISON RIDER at 12/10 str, and CAN use metals (for a maximum of 16/14)

So how about this for the War Tortoise??

10/18, 2 move, CAN use metals, +25% Coast/Ocean Defense, 3 unit cargo, CAN use defensive bonuses. (perhaps +1 move in water tiles) ... oh, and +25% vs Mounted, I suppose + Amphibious promotion.

---> in this way you could still use the War Tortoise as either a City Defender, or a really slow boat. And at 10,11,12,14 attack strength, depending on metals, it could join in the attack as well, if it went well enough. AH!! Add Amphibious too ... makes it better at being the Land/Ocean unit/boat hybrid that imho it should be.

Imagine 4 war tortoises carrying 12 boarding parties on their backs crossing a small sea.

[Terkhen]

Now that the Planar Gate summons are buildable, should Manticores and Minotaurs be limited to a maximum of 4 units like the national units in which they are based upon? Or at least have a smaller limit than the other summons.

[Tasunke]

It would be cool if the build limit for those 2 was similar to their spawn limit. I guess it would be impossible to have the limit increase with AC.

2 solutions

1) separate unit class for the buildable version

2) those two unbuildable

[Qgqqqqq]

Well it depends. Obviously they are easily the most powerful units available, enough so that a Commune with Nature push was considered in my Sheaim game, and it is possible on reaching them that they would be overpowered. At the same time, however, on some level you wonder if it's not a fair chance for them to have a late game power-point - it's not like CwN is a particularly strong tech anyways, and rbe demands are considerable.

But yeah, I wonder. I certainly want them buildable, but I'd be very willing to make them national units - provided we could maintain the normal spawning mechanism. Maybe that's impossible without creating a duplicate unit entry, though.

[Tasunke]

Yes u would need a duplicate unit.

One of the things about building the unit is that the more you build, the less it will spawn. And if you have built enough for the Max #, then none will spawn. So if you *do* make a duplicate unit with limit 4 (or limit 6? at our most generous?) then it will only be a boost and will not be a nerf. In fact, at high AC, you'll probably be seeing more Manticores/Minotaurs spawning from gates than Succubi .... b/c if u already have an army of the lower level spawns, none will continue to spawn.

Therefore having a duplicate unit with unitclass LIMIT 4 seems acceptable. HOWEVER!!! I wonder .... if you make the Unitclass limit does that REALLY limit spawning?

You MIGHT be able to get away with this if you just change its unitclass limit from unlimited to 4 .... and see via worldbuilder if it serves as a spawn limit as well. If the hard-limit on unitclass, which imho only applies for buildable units, DOESNT have any effect on how many spawn ... you COULD just make it a national unit, and, for instance, you could still end up getting say 8 manticores spawning at 100 AC.

[Terkhen]

In order to avoid duplications and problems with unitclass limits, I believe that setting a customized building prerrequisite that limits the number of these units to the same limit for spawning units would be a more elegant solution. It would make both spawning and building follow the same rules, simplifying the mechanic. If this is done, then it would just be a matter of giving manticores and minotaurs a smaller limit than the one used for the rest of the units. The implementation of this customized prerrequisite would be similar than the one used for Beasts of Agares (adding a python check in CvGameUtils.cannotTrain) so it would have the inconvenient of not showing the player why a certain unit cannot be built.

[Dreylin]

I don't know if this has been requested previously, but it would be really useful if the year/turn could be added back to the notification log (and the Top Cities screen). It's one thing that I really miss from base Civ for tracking C&D.

Unless there's a really good reason for the removal (as with the Combat Log)...?

[Qgqqqqq]

Huh, I didn't know that was missing. Sure.

Could any players tell me when it disappeared? Because it's probably my fault in fooling around with the T1 bug.

[Dreylin]

Reminder to look into Quick speed length of GA vs delay between civics revolts....

[Qgqqqqq]

Thanks.

Okay, so the idea I've had surrounding civic swap length is to limit it on quick such that you can achieve two civic swaps within a GA (which is always the case in base BTS) and is something I think is beneficial to return to.
This can, of course, be viewed two ways - firstly, it boosts SPI, because 8t between swapping civics/religions is slightly better than 10t. At the same time, of course, it better enables non-SPIs to mimic it's effects, so imo it's a comparative nerf of them, if slight.
My heasitation arises, however, in that EitB is founded on the principle of minimalistic changes, and this one is inherently a bit egregious, with no fault that it is addressing. So I'm in two minds about it, and would welcome feedback.


Another (slight) change I came up with whilst chatting to Ellimist centered around improving Druids (which have been quite heavily nerfed in EitB) is to allow Tier 1 disciples to upgrade to them. This means you can use them to get priest spells without ever con erting to that religion.