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EitB v12 Wishlist/Progress

Hello, I have a suggestion to help improve my favorite civ, the Sidar, that is a second/third tier civ.

It is simply to change the severed soul so that the soul does not disband at the end of the turn.
I think it was done in Orbis mod. it hes scouting, surprise attacks and shameless pillaging.

It is powerful. Would that be too much of an advantage for them ? They need some power up anyway.
Born to be Sid Emperor King

Divided souls in EitB is ... surprisingly OP ... in some ways :D ... but its incredibly difficult to keep track of.

IMHO just focus on making the Ghost NOT a cheaper copy of the Amurite Chanter wink


Ghost -> -50% city attack (gains neutral city defense), +Defensive and Homeland promotions. This makes the Ghost an interesting unit-choice for the Sidar, almost recreating the Defensive trait but ONLY with their flavorful unit ... so its not OP or anything. IMHO I think that would be best smile

I think Divided souls going across the ocean is not a big deal.

Yes I say! Give the Sidar something different!

A) very, very strong boost. Heard of cultist on the lake? Imagine your entire army there, but it doesn't matter if the enemy kills it because they're not really there. You can have units lurking in ocean or coast or mountains (or on the other side of any) with no cost to you - your army can be away doing other things. And that's just the obvious stuff - I can think of 4-5 other ways to exploit it.
B) difficult to code and, IIRC, very resource heavy. This is implemented in Magistermodmod of the modmods I play, and involves a complicated and rather unclear process (IIRC - it's been a while). However, to make it function as it does in base still - permanent summons normally can't move on their first turn - would be a lot of work on my part.

This fails on the first instance, though the second does have some impact.

Tasunke, Ghosts can cast Severed Soul, and Stealth (or whatever its called). They can't cast Escape - where did you get that from?

If I was to boost Sidar, I would do it through moving the severed soul boost to Hunting (from KotE).
Erebus in the Balance - a FFH Modmod based around balancing and polishing FFH for streamlined competitive play.


Ghosts can cast Severed Soul and Hide ... Chanters can cast Hide and Escape.

meh, I think its flavorful to make 'ghost' a bit more defense oriented than your average assassin ... without increasing base defense strength.

Certainly that's arguable - I wouldn't be surprised or disappointed to see it that way in your modmod. But this is EitB. The current model works, so I don't see a motive to change it.
Erebus in the Balance - a FFH Modmod based around balancing and polishing FFH for streamlined competitive play.


(March 15th, 2015, 16:01)Dreylin Wrote: I've not got a strong opinion yet on whether it's needed, but you could make the penalty on the Warrens be Unhappiness rather than Unhealthy to hit both leaders equally. (Lore-wise it could equally represent the consequences of squalid conditions) That would be an implicit nerf to the building itself since there's be less production in the city to multiply.[/quote[

I like that idea. It's fair to both leaders, but still gives a substantial nerf to what is arguably currently the most powerful building in the entire game... nod

[quote='Dreylin' pid='529060' dateline='1426453315']The other issue that's been brought up tangentially but not really discussed is the interaction of the Barbarian trait with a late era start - does the later tech baseline negate some of the drawback of Barbarian?

Yes. Yes. And more YES!


Even I agree that what I say next might be construed as "diplomacy" due to certain ongoing games, so... Read at your own peril:

I thought this was obvious already- the biggest drawback of the Barbarian trait is getting to early techs like Agriculture, Education, and Bronze Working later. Any late-era start whatsoever (whether Discovery Era or Mastery) is going to give a HUGE buff to Barbarian leaders- and in the Clan's case largely remove any reason for EVER choosing any other civ over them...

This next part is much, much less likely to be considered diplomacy by anyone- but it's still in spoilers in case you're really concerned about that:

In Late Era games (or any Advanced Start in FFH2 or even normal BTS) there is normally a certain amount of time where you're able to do basically anything you could want by that point in the game because later techs aren't generally useful to a tiny, budding civilization. So, any leader, Barbarian or not is going to not really derive much benefit or penalty to modifier to tech-rate for the first 20-30 turns or so (depending on tech-rate) and with some strategies not until substantially even later... So it's an effective buff to Barbarian, and a nerf to Summoner (when it has a tech-rate advantage), Financial, or any civ that starts with Mind Mana... (such as the Svartalfar, Amurites, or Balseraphs)


Regards,
Northstar

(March 16th, 2015, 21:28)Qgqqqqq Wrote: If I was to boost Sidar, I would do it through moving the severed soul boost to Hunting (from KotE).

I think you should do that (along with nerfing Warrens with a -1 happy and buffing the Elohim and Luchirup somehow)- although my saying that may in itself seal the idea's tomb because of the conflcit we've already had between us...

Sidar are currently another very weak civ in multiplayer (without Unrestricted Leaders, that is- I shudder to think what they can accomplish with a suitable Arcane or Spiritual leader and a suitably isolated starting-position...)


Regards,
Northstar

For fucks sake Northstar...I really don't have a grudge against your suggestions or you, and I don't let that affect my decision-making.

In this case, I do think that I'll implement that.

As to the Elohim and Luchuirp, I think there's enough changes for them for now, and they need to be tested with those changes before they should be reconsidered, as both have dramatic buffs planned.

(In case you've missed them: Monks upgrading to Priests, another-buff-to-monks-I've-forgotten, free march at Reliquiries, cut price of Reliquiries. Maybe some other stuff. Luchuirp have price on golems cut big-time (actually in 'v11, but no ones tested it), new buildings which allow Heavy/Light promotions (a huge boost, given that mobility is their main disadvantage). I'll still take and respond to suggestions, but they're unlikely to make it into this version.)


Sidar currently have a ARC leader, btw.


As to warrens...I'd like to solicit wider opinions about that. Especially from those players who have played the Clan competitively in the past (Mardoc, Ellimist, Serdoa (what happened to you, man?), Krill and so on), or those who have experience playing competitively here. Obviously I'm still interested in general opinions, of course, on the following:
  • Are the Clan overpowered to an unbalanced degree in the current version of the mod/recent versions of the mod?
  • In your opinion, are there any changes currently needed to the Clan? If so, what are they?
  • Specifically, how do you feel about altering Warrens to give -1 happy?

Northstar, I'm going to assume you've already answered these wink But if you want to add more, go for it.


Dreylin Wrote:The other issue that's been brought up tangentially but not really discussed is the interaction of the Barbarian trait with a late era start - does the later tech baseline negate some of the drawback of Barbarian?

Let's discuss that post-39, shall we? As it's virtually impossible to do so here without reference to that game.
Erebus in the Balance - a FFH Modmod based around balancing and polishing FFH for streamlined competitive play.


(March 17th, 2015, 03:47)Qgqqqqq Wrote:
Dreylin Wrote:The other issue that's been brought up tangentially but not really discussed is the interaction of the Barbarian trait with a late era start - does the later tech baseline negate some of the drawback of Barbarian?

Let's discuss that post-39, shall we? As it's virtually impossible to do so here without reference to that game.

Sure, and that's pretty-much what I expected, but I thought a placeholder for further discussion was warranted. (Even though I suspect that this was precisely one of the reasons you proposed the late-era game in the first place)



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