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Japper and Cornflakes' team thread

Turn 45:

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Don't think the current situation is as dire as you make it out. The heal on the city takes place on your end turn, as you can see it healed back almost to full before my turn. Expected damage is therefore only a delta of ~8 per turn as long as Woden has only one archer there, a Warrior does about 20-30 if it attacks from full health. with current damage it'd take (194 current health - 30 on a warrior last hit) : 8= 20 turns. That is of course if Woden doesn't bring in more units, but he faces the same problem you do, all terrain within the city is rough enough that he'd first have to let you hit him with your Archer. If we upgrade the defenses either with a Sword or Chariot on your side it'll take even longer to reduce the health.

I thought of one other Religious Wonder you didn't mention, Mont St Michel:
http://civilization.wikia.com/wiki/Mont_...hel_(Civ6)

It's bonuses are decent (especially as Kongo, I'll have a veritable horde of Apostles to give Martyr), it's production at 710 is quite expensive but I have a nice spot at my capital where I could legally build it:


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Problem is getting to Divine Right is really not the path I want to be on as the Kongo of course, but you might, with a Religion in the bag it's the cheapest tier 3 government to unlock for you and it has a neat 50% bonus to walls for chopping and defense purposes

I agree that the Kongo gold strat is more a late game thing (usually I only hit peak efficiency with Democracy around turn 200, though I already hit ~200 gold per turn at turn 160), I should for now just focus on my Warrior replacement, getting some extra Settlers out and booming up my economy with Campuses and Commercial hubs.
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That is a relief that healing hadn't occurred yet. Still, with just 1 additional attack, I'll heal back from the first hit while the 2nd is 100% profit for Woden. It is also useful to know that healing on units occurs at the end of the turn. That means units that I fortify on my turn will heal before taking the next hit. I wonder if the healing is actually occurring at the end of my turn or at the turn roll? For me there is no difference since I am last in turn order, but for everyone else that would make a difference. For example if it is at the turn roll, then anything I attack but don't kill has the potential to heal back some before you have a chance to clean up. If it is at the end of turn then the opposite is true, since all other players play between us they would have an opportunity to heal after your attack before I get to clean up.

How did the timing work out for you on turn? That is about the latest I'll pass on the morning turns during the week. I could do it about 10-15 minutes earlier if that would make much of a difference to you. On weekends I'll play about 1-2 hours later.
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Timing is fine, it arrives in the afternoon my time, once university starts again I'll probably not get to the turn before the evening my time so it is a couple hours early for my regular turnslot even. No worries!

AFAIK Heals always occur at the end of your own turn (so at the exact moment you click end turn) and this is also when fortification bonuses get applied, this is unaltered from the base game. This means that Woden's units won't be able to heal in the turn between ours.

The only exception in the hotseat client is City States and Barbarians, which get their own turn after the last player (yours). This is to avoid immortal CS units in games with over 2 players (as they'd normally heal at everyones end turn crazyeye ) and barbarian spam.
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I sent you a request for 20 gold. That will allow me to buy a builder turn after next to chop walls at Aranyaka. Please accept the trade deal, or re-offer if it doesn't work. We have another turn to discuss whether that is indeed the right move, but might as well get me the gold now. I'll post a couple screenshots and more thoughts later but wanted to make sure you saw this before you played the turn.
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That's fine, remember that I need to start saving up gold to upgrade Warriors though.
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Deal went through!

No new units on the front for either Woden or Chevalier, are they having coordination/terrain troubles? Or are they getting rushed by someone else?

Also Chev's units are still Slingers, so I really don't get their gameplan here? Do they actually expect one Potato Archer to break through Aranyaka in a reasonable time-frame? They are not THAT strong right? Still no General or melee unit with a ram either...

Next turn I complete a Warrior, I'll churn out another before PP then switch into Builder and Settler at Oligarchy. I need a Builder to chop the jungle to zone my Commercial Hub at cap, get another Iron Mine and a pasture on the Sheep (possibly another chop? Maybe chop out a Settler?).
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The archer at Aranyaka has reached full health, so I Started off by deleting it. This is the last of the deletions:
   

   

I took out the barb camp for 50Icon_Gold and the last XP to earn a promotion. I'll be able to heal back to around 70 HP with that promotion. I'm fairly sure, but not absolutely certain, that the barb scout to the east of my capital came from that camp. The northern camp should be erupting soon from it's scout which found me 2 turns ago, probably see the units in 2-3 turns. It's too bad they didn't find Aranyaka or they could have helped in the defense by targeting CMF/s units. One of his slingers and a warrior appeared there.

   

Looking closer at Aranyaka ... It was set to complete the archer there in 2 turns, but I adjusted the tiles to push it back to 3. I'm putting enough cogs into it this turn that we could adjust the tile and still complete it next turn. The reason I delayed it is so that we can consider chopping the forest to the SE for maximum overflow into the walls. A forest chop at 9 techs yields 44 hammers according to the chop table. Routed through an archer with only 1 cog remaining will result in 65Icon_Production overflow into walls. The cost of walls is 80 so we'd just need another 15 which I can get in the time it will take me to get the chop completed. Therefore:

T46: Bring archer to 1Icon_Production remaining, Masonry completes at end of turn. Don't have enough gold yet to buy the builder
T47: Put 8Icon_Production into walls working PFH and PH ... Buy the builder
T48: Move builder to PFH, put 7Icon_Production into walls (swap off Urban Planning this turn for Colonization to get a settler out of the capital)
T49: chop through the archer. Archer completes this turn and is ready for action two turns later than if we just built it. Walls complete at the end of turn.

The downsides: Burns 230Icon_Gold which could be used for upgrading units. Risk that W/CMF move in quickly and capture the city before the walls complete. The walls may only delay capture a couple of turns. Is it worth burning the upgrade gold on a builder who's other charges aren't needed in my empire and who's efforts are just a couple-turn speed-bump? If the couple turns gave us enough time to upgrade a sword there then it might be worth it (if we could even come up with the gold to make the upgrade). I'm honestly don't know which way I'm leaning, whether to try and save Aranyaka/slow down capture with a wall chop or retreat immediately and save the gold for upgrades.

   

Overview shot from the end of turn. I'm not going to try saving the trader from barb pillage if it comes to that. It's supposed to be deleted anyway after the route completes as one of the sanctions, might as well let the barbs kill it. It's too bad none of my CS quests could be completed before I enter Classical era in 3 turns frown
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Did you forget about the trader?
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(January 17th, 2018, 10:21)Japper007 Wrote: Potato Archer

lol I like it, I'll call them Potato Archers from now on too. I couldn't remember the spelling of them so I've just been calling them Nubian.

I expect to see a flood of units in the very near future ... CMF is at 179 and Woden is at 146 mil strength. Woden is further away than CMF so it will take him a bit longer to get his units into combat. Coordination troubles might indeed be an issue. I was thinking about that when I was looking at the situation. CMF moves first in turn order, so his warrior will have to attack before Woden can soften me up with his archer attacks. I think it's safe to assume that Woden will provide the Archers and CMF will provide the melee. With 1 UPT it looks a lot more difficult to coordinate unit movements between two separate players. Even if they communicate well, there are just some things that can't be done logistically between two separate players. Woden will not be able to advance his archers into any tile occupied by CMF's units. If CMF is in front, Woden won't be able to advance until CMF first advances. They can't rotate units into the front-lines as easily (a single player could just swap a front and back unit but that doesn't work if the back units are of the other player). They could end up trapping injured units on the front lines, or leaving units un-supported. Also I checked and allied units do not provide support bonuses, so a mixed army will not support itself as well.
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(January 17th, 2018, 10:44)MJW (ya that one) Wrote: Did you forget about the trader?

No I even mentioned that in the above post. It will be deleted once the route completes (if deleting traders is even an option the game allows), but my guess is that the barbs which are about to erupt in the north will take care of pillaging it for me in the next 10 turns
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