Are you, in fact, a pregnant lady who lives in the apartment next door to Superdeath's parents? - Commodore

Create an account  

 
[Spoilers] Kaiser tries to remember the new AI difficulty

because apparently I lacked the experience and the correct mind set last time.

Dedlurkers are very welcome to support and remind me of mechanics and strategies, especially building military (like @Adrienier was doing)

Lurkers are welcome to enjoy, I will try to report better and more consistently this time.

Other players  yikes

Reply

Map settings
- Continents or Pangea
- CS located without freshwater but with the possibility to access it later with aquaeduct

Map Specs for PYDT:
All DLCs and Expansions
Standard Size
Standard Speed
Other/Custom Map Type
7 Players
15 City States
Disaster Level: 4

Bans:
- VA
- Scythia
- Hungary (Yeah, I gotta agree there)
- Maori (makes a map very whacky)
- Religious Settlements Pantheon
- No pillaging CS except for farms and fishing

 Common sense:
- No tactical DoWs on Australia
- No tactical DoWs by Persia? not part of this game
- City States can be attacked but a war declaration against the suzerain is necessary if there is any

CIV picking
- do I have to pick from the 4 given civs or do we use the picking scheme suggested by Woden?

Reply

Picks Guess:

I do not have the time to go in depth here but my first gut feeling for the other players picks is.

Alhambram: Inca, Persia, Korea, Australia
Cornflakes: France, Macedon, Rome, Japan
Pindicator: Sweden, Georgia, Kongo, Mongolia (reroll)
Suboptimal: England, Poland, Spain, Nubia
TheArchduke: Phoenicia, Scotland, Russia, Germany
TheBlackSword: Ottoman, Cree, Dutch, India (reroll)

Due to a larger player pool and the way PBEM was and PBEM16 is turning out, I feel that many players will pick civs which are have an early military strength. Not necessarily to use it offensively but to as a deterrent and to be opportunistic. While I greatly enjoy GS as and the features which were included, I believe that the game became more random in its nature and some "lucky disasters" can turn the relative position quickly, especially in the early game.

I will try to take some time during the weekend to have a more detailed look into this but will base my pick around this assumption.

Final Picks

TheArchduke: Russia
I was wrong here but it is not unexpected as Russia is a strong CIV as it has easy access to a religion, a large territory to work and a very good but a little late unit.
I see him starting solid while grabing a religion first with DotF and trying to swallow at least one city state (that was why I favored Germany as a pick for him).

Alhambram: Australia
Settling on coast gives a huge housing bonus, but is a double edged sword as it also makes you more vulnerable for a naval invasion. War deterrent in its 100% production bonus and a very good improvement (+1Icon_Food +1Icon_Production +1 housing and more with adjacencies round out the picture. I hope he is not having to many coast or pastures to build his improvement next to.
He will play a builder game and trust on his defensive war 100% production bonus. Early game the only way to take cities from him with a very quick surprise attack but it might get difficult to keep them.

TheBlackSword: Cree
Wrong again as he did not reroll but took Cree. A good early game civilization which gives him a better margin for errors. He gets more, better and earlier traderoutes (with pasture in target city) strong scouts (no need for Warriors in the beginning but upgrade issue) and an good early game improvement in the Meekwap as it gives production and housing and can be improved with food and gold with nearby resources.
All in all a solid pick for a first CIV6 PBEM, I hope he does not fall in the same trap as me and play to much the builder game, but he has CIV 4 experience so I assume his mindset is better prepared than I am at the moment

Kaiser: Greece/Gorgo
Early war or barbarians will help our culture, this is potentially a trap as it might end up in producing to many units and waging to early but I choose this on purpose so I can avoid the last games scenarios where I ran to light and expanded to optimistically. Additional wild cards are very helpful all game long, especially early as I can run agoge continouusly. The hoplite is an ok-ish unit, its main defect are that you need two for the bonus and it still is weaker than a swordsmen (or warrior if alone) however it is very good against any early game cavalry and thus a good military deterrent. It will fare ok against Nubia but will crumble against Rome. Cheaper theatre districts which gives envoys and has better and easy adjacencies will help in being a front runner in the civics departement starting from the mid classical age.
I hope I wont be next to Rome as I have to rely on Swordsmen and Horsemen for early game defence there which are both more expensive than Hoplites. I will look for a respectable military, maybe even an early war to farm culture and keep a neighbor dwon and try to keep ahead in civics.

suboptimal: Nubia
No desert nearby please, 20% lower district production is good enough, the improvement can be really amazing or really meh depending on district plkacement possibilities and desert tiles. It also would give 40% district production cost if it is next to a city center (and +1 Icon_Food). The crazy part is the Archer, 50% production bonus and the best Archer in the game (faster, stronger, tougher) will not only be a great deterrent but also enable rushes in the late ancient, early classical age. You cannot catch these Archers with horses ...
Might go for a religion as he has one of the few boni for it (20% reduced cost) and it is a lot more important in GS, Otherwise I expect him to rush for Archers and build a solid number as a deterrent or potential attacking force supplemented by swordsmen or better horsemen. 

pindicator: Khmer
A better temple (really? +1 relic slot and Martyr promotion to missionaries? at least they can leverage the slot) and some boni around holy sites and aqueducts increasing their food production or adjacency bonus for it. There is also a minor housing bonus on holy sites and amenity bonus on aqueducts. The special unit is a elephant but it is a stronger catapult or cheaper bombard which can move and shot and excerts zone of control.
I see the religious game being played by pindicator, as it doubles up as an early growth strategy, however the true limitation is housing and even though there is one additional housing in holy sites near rivers and an incentive in building aqueducts housing is still very limiting to such a strategy as he will grow quickly into it. Maybe there is a surprise game plan with some pantheon or religion choices. Will probably be 2nd to religion

Cormflakes: Rome
Free roads and monuments, great for an early game culture lead and better protection for your cities. A better swordsmen who still costs resources and can build once, still very good especially combined with a GG. Rush potential is lowered due to the resource necessity. Aqueducst provide additional amenities and are cheaper, great as housing is very limiting early game and Rome can build the best additional housing district early. Also this combines nicely with our city state without fresh water but in range for Aqueduct rule.
He will pull away in civics early, with maybe me as a contender depending on my barb luck and has the basis for a very strong empire at hand. Likely will play for Legion aggression in the classical era and try to conquer some city states as well.

A ranking is actually very difficult to do as it strongly depends on starting land, so lets try it differently.

Early game conquering: Rome, Nubia, maybe Greece
Early game pull away: Cree, Rome in Civics, Russia in a Faith
Mid game pull away: Australia, Khmer or any of above if conquered/pulled away enough
Late game dominance: Russia

Reply

My pick:
It looks like I am keeping Woden from preparing the map, so I will do a quick gut feeling decision for my civ as well.

Kaiser: Mali, Greece, Mapuche, Indonesia

Mali - slow starter who needs to get to currency to start catching up with gold buys. Incentivizes nicely a mixed Faith/Gold economy but will fall back to much early, especially with banned religious settlements pantheon

Greece - Perikles
City states will be attackable early so it will get difficult becoming suzerain to protect enough to make his bonus count, for MP in my opinion strictly inferior to Gorgo when there is no city state protection in place

Greece - Gorgo
There is the early military for defense and a strong culture play with her bonus and the akropolis

Mapuche - Lautaro
difficult to use the golden age military strength boost defensively but I can see scenarios where it can be used offensively quite well. The improvment is gimmicky and the unit comes to late for my taste

Indonesia - Gitara
I need to recheck the map script but gut feeling right now is a no as they benefit on sea and lack an early military bonus. As it looks to be pangea or continents I will be facing my neighbors via land quickly and rule her out

I am running a test game to get a better feeling for Gorgo, Lautaro and Gitara - done

Reply

(November 22nd, 2019, 11:49)Kaiser Wrote: My pick:
It looks like I am keeping Woden from preparing the map, so I will do a quick gut feeling decision for my civ as well. 

Don't rush on my behalf. Only needed confirmation that you were still playing, which I got a few days ago. Map is about 80% completed.
Reply

A rule against Persia isn't needed because you can just DoW them. Sub and CFCJF failing to do so doesn't matter.
Reply

I actually disagree, as other players might not DoW on Persia. Maybe because they are on the other side of the map or do not feel threatened for other reasons or might even willingly offer Persia the ability to gain +2 movement.

As long as there is any player at peace with Persia it can gain the bonus as the bonus is independant of the player Persia is actually attacking, it just requires the declaration of a surprise war to any player on the map.

Reply

Okay, Persia makes contact and then DoWs on their turn before the other player can do anything. That could be a problem. Your other ideas wouldn't work in practice because you wouldn't want to give Persia +2 because that would cause Persia to take over someone's land which is really good in civ6. But Persia making first contact could ruin everything.
Reply

Naa; people wanting to avoid Persia getting a tactical DoW so bad (to avoid them capture another player's cities) will induce them to DoW immediately. Persia being stuck in always war is more than enough to balance out a possible first contact +2.
Reply

I personally want to avoid the discussion around the same case as the Australia collusion. What if someone wants to actively support Persia by making peace and thus offering the surprise war declaration?

I believe the the best way is to appeal at the common sense of the player to only use the option vs. Players they can and want to attack.
This would also allow Persia to play something else than an always war game with players who do not feel threatened.

In any case there is no feedback yet on my suggestion, so I will check tomorrow to get a final understanding on which rule set we are playing

Reply



Forum Jump: