Realms Beyond Forum

The Realms Beyond PBEM 9 Creation Myth

[SIZE="4"]I[/SIZE]n the beginning, Jod created the heavens and the earth. And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep.

And Jod said, let there be light, and there was light. And Jod saw the light, that it was good: and Jod divided the light from the fog-of-war.

And that was the end of the first day.

And Jod said, Let the map script be run, so that the waters under the heaven would be gathered together unto one place, and dry land appear, and it was so.

And Jod called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and Jod saw that it was good.

And that was the end of the second day.

And Jod said, Let the earth bring forth grass, and corn, and wheat, and rice, and let them be arranged in such a manner that they can be irrigated post-bureaucracy; and bananas, and sugar, and all manner of post-calendar happiness resources, and it was so.

And that was the end of the third day.

And Jod said, Let the earth bring forth copper and iron, and precious metals of all kinds; and coal, and aluminum, and uranium: and it was so. And Jod made sure to put copper and iron near the player's starting position.

And that was the end of the fourth day.

And Jod said, Let the earth bring forth pigs and cows, and deer and sheep; and furs, and horses and elephants; and it was so. And Jod made sure to put the horses near the player's starting position. But Jod looked upon the elephants, and saw that they were overpowered, and erased them.

And that was the end of the fifth day.

And Jod said, Let us make man in our image, and give them their respective starting techs, their UUs and UBs, and let them have dominion over the resources of the map. And it was so.

And Jod blessed them, and said to them, Be fruitful and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it, and win by conquest, domination, diplomacy, or space race.

And Jod looked upon the things he had created, and it was very good, but Jod was sad as he knew that the players would still whine anyway.

And that was the end of the sixth day.

Welcome to my PBEM 9 thread. If you happen to be a lurker, know that you are welcome within this thread anytime. If you happen to be a fellow player, shoo!

Now that the pleasantries are out of the way, we can get down to business.



Why Pericles?

Why Pericles, indeed. Surely, in a no-tech trading game, Financial would be better? My answer is, while it is in fact useful, playing as a financial leader is fairly dull. In addition, having a third financial leader (As of this time of writing) would be quite monotonous, would it not? Therefore financial is out.

Protective and Charismatic are out, on virtue of being weaker than every other trait. I briefly considered Aggressive, combined with the Ikhanda, which would have been quite useful on a map where every single civ looks to be running a farmer's gambit. Unfortunately, said bit of consideration came after I had chosen Pericles, and as such I was stuck with old Perry.

Expansive is useful, but would shine best with the Incans, which I had no desire to play and no guarantee of getting; in addition, after weighing it against Creative, I decided that the free border pops and cheap libraries would be better. Of course, had Pacal not been chosen at the start, Expansive would have looked better, but between EXP/PHI and CRE/PHI, the latter has the bonus of having a nice synergy. (More on that below)

Organised was, of course, an option, but without any guarantee of having a high difficulty level, would also be a slightly risky one. Therefore I opted to pass on it. Industrious was another good option, as it could double as an economic trait provided one landed the right wonders- Indeed, this would have been my first choice had FIN and PHI been banned. However, with FIN and PHI, it falls to the wayside.

Finally, Spiritual- One of my favourite traits, and honestly, quite a tempting option. However, the attractiveness of a religious economy is quite dampened in multiplayer, where players, unlike the AI, are generally reluctant to spread a foreign religion around in their borders unless given incentives in the form of exorbitant amounts of gold. The sheer headache of trying to negotiate this with the other players made it fall just short of creative.

Now, for the positive benefits of the CRE/PHI combo:

Creative, of course, is useful for popping borders; one does not have to fiddle around with monuments, Stonehenge or religions. In addition, the free culture and discounts to cultural buildings will end up boosting the defense of cities by quite a bit, making it a quasi-defensive trait. And of course, the half-price libraries are always nice for boosting early research, and doubly important in a no-tech-trading game.

Philosophical has a nice synergy with Creative, half-price libraries and double GPP coming together for an extremely early academy. Philosophical also gives a nice discount on Universities, making it the second beaker-multiplying building to be discounted. And additional Great People can be used to bulb key techs, pushing me ahead in this neck-to-neck race.

Why Maya?

My choice of Maya came after the choice of Pericles, with the obvious attraction of half-priced ball courts. In addition, Holkans would be useful for choking one of my neighbours should they attempt to pull a farmer's gambit. Of course, it will also protect me from being rushed or choked in turn, up until my hypothetical enemy gets axes, at which point I should have horses or copper hooked up. Nevertheless, the Holkan was, in the end, nothing more than a mere afterthought- the main attraction was the ball court.

[SIZE="5"]Plans for World Domination[/SIZE]

[SIZE="3"]Phase 1: The Academy of Hekademia[/SIZE](Ancient Age)

Build an early academy
Found at least 6 cities by 0 AD
Not die
Build the Pyramids

Secure a source of Stone (Optional)
Secure a source of Marble (Optional)
Build the Great Lighthouse (Optional)

[SIZE="3"]Phase 2: ???[/SIZE](Classical Age)

[SIZE="3"]Phase 3: ???[/SIZE](Medieval Age)

[SIZE="3"]Phase 4: ???[/SIZE](Renaissance Age)

[SIZE="3"]Phase 5: ???[/SIZE](Industrial Age)

[SIZE="3"]Phase 6: ???[/SIZE](Modern Age)

[SIZE="2"] Kodii- Willem of the Mali[/SIZE]
Starts with Wheel, Mining

Willem has a powerful set of traits- Creative for cheap libraries and free culture expansion, along with Financial for extra commerce. His choice of Mali means that his initial strategy will most likely revolve around him spamming cities and daring anyone to try and attack fortified 4 str skirmishers with 20-40% cultural defenses. Skirmishers also make him immune to choking via the usual method of cutting off one's metals and horses.

If he ends up as my neighbour, mutual cooperation would be better than both of us spamming our resourceless UUs at each other.

The player himself I know little- but he does not seem to be inexperienced. At the same time, he comes off as being a fairly approachable person, so the possibility for a partnership is there should circumstances allow it.

Overall, with Kodii's experience, and his solid Leader/Civ combo, I would place him at #2, just slightly under ruff's Fast Workers.

[SIZE="2"] Pegasus- Pacal II of the Ottomans[/SIZE]
Starts with Wheel, Agriculture

Pacal II is one of the more solid leaders in the game, with expansive for cheaper workers and granaries. Jowy's comment on water tiles seems to indicate that the harbor bonus will come in useful too.

Pegasus' pick of the Ottomans, however, strikes me as a poor choice. If I had to wager, his initially preferred picks were Inca, then India. When he was deprived of both, he was forced into a snap decision and settled for the Ottomans.

The Janissary is a decent- but by no means good- UU. It has its uses in defending against cuirassiers and longbows, but against other muskets it has limited appeal.

The Hammam, on the other hand, is a fairly odd pick. An aqueduct with two extra happiness is nice and all, but the two extra health is generally quite redundant- even more so with expansive. Trading 100 hammers for two happiness seems like quite a poor trade off, when you can simply use archers with HR instead.

Pegasus strikes me as someone who is easy to get along with. He is part of the newbie trifecta, along with mackoti and myself, and his pick of Ottomans cast doubts about his skill.

Overall, I would put him at #3, slightly above mackoti.

[SIZE="2"] mackoti- Peter of the Incans[/SIZE]
Starts with Mysticism, Farming

Peter is a decent leader, with expansive for cheap buildings etc etc. Having a second Philosophical leader makes things slightly- but only slightly- less monotonous than having four Financial leaders. It also, however, means that I will be competing with mackoti for races like that of the Pyramids, or the Mausoleum, or for Taoism.

The Incans are a fairly solid civilisation. Though the Quecha might have fairly limited use against humans, it still works fairly well for dealing with barbs early on.

The Terrace has a nice synergy with the expansive trait. At a discounted 30 hammers, it costs as much as a monument, while providing twice the culture, extra health, and storing half the food after growth.

Truth be told, when mackoti picked the Incans, I heaved a sigh of relief- had Pegasus got it, the resulting combination would have been frightening to behold. As it is, Peter of Inca is a fairly solid combo.

Mackoti forms part of the newbie trifecta, along with Pegasus and myself, and his initial indecision in picking his leader strikes me as a sign of inexperience. He also seems somewhat unapproachable- Though that might merely be due to a poor grasp of the English language.

Overall, I would rate him #4.

[SIZE="2"] ruff_hi- Mansa Musa of the Indians[/SIZE]
Starts with Mysticism, Mining

Ladies and Gentlemen, I give you... THE INDIA PICK!

We have, thus far, had India picked a total of six times in the RB games, beating out Byzantium (5), Inca (5), HRE (5) and Ottomans (5). Personally, I feel like I've had my fill of those purple borders.

Ahem. Anyway, Mansa Musa is a strong leader, as SP would attest to, and the Spiritual trait is quite dangerous in the hands of a skilled player like ruff. Perhaps my fondness for the trait is affecting my judgement, but I fear Mansa Musa of India more than I do Pacal II of India.

India's fast workers are good in the hands of a skilled player, and extremely good in the hands of a heavy micro-manager, and it is perhaps a small mercy that (insofar as I can tell) ruff is not the sort of player who plots out every single worker move 20 turns in advance.

Ruff is the #1 most likely player to win the game, just ahead of Kodii. India might have fast expansion thanks to its workers, but without the defensive power of skirmishers is vulnerable to a choke or rush that might cripple it and even things out. Then again, performing another 'Let's all dogpile on India' play might cause the audience to boo us off the stage for being unoriginal. We'll have to see how it goes.

Just to say I'm liking how this thread has started and the uncommon leader pick.

Couple of polite points would be:

• Possibly showing slight inexperience in choosing Pericles first.
  I don't know if you were 100% set on your choices, but Pericles is not picked as often as he should be, and you were probably in more risk of losing Mali than Pericles. You could also have taken Inca (although I get the feeling you didn't want to?).
  
• Don't underestimate Peter of Inca, that's a strong pick.
  
• Gang up on India all you want!
  Agree that purple borders are way overdone and the Indians deserve it.
  

Good luck in getting those Pyramids!

Edit:

T-hawk Wrote:Hey, what? I can understand carrying the reputation of Sullla and Speaker into future games, but the reputation of India?

pocketbeetle Wrote:Gang up on India all you want!
Agree that purple borders are way overdone and the Indians deserve it.

Hey, what? I can understand carrying the reputation of Sullla and Speaker into future games, but the reputation of India?

pocketbeetle Wrote:Just to say I'm liking how this thread has started and the uncommon leader pick.

Couple of polite points would be:

• Possibly showing slight inexperience in choosing Pericles first.
  I don't know if you were 100% set on your choices, but Pericles is not picked as often as he should be, and you were probably in more risk of losing Mali than Pericles. You could also have taken Inca (although I get the feeling you didn't want to?).
  
• Don't underestimate Peter of Inca, that's a strong pick.
  
• Gang up on India all you want!
  Agree that purple borders are way overdone and the Indians deserve it.
  

Good luck in getting those Pyramids!

-I picked Pericles first in order to guarantee my planned combo of Pericles/Maya. I guessed (correctly) that if Mackoti made a pick, he would go for a combo with a half-price UB. In addition, I wagered that he would pick either one of the research traits. By picking Pericles, I cut off his options to choose a Creative leader (Unless he ditched FIN/PHI), which gave me a better shot at getting Maya (not Mali).


-Peter of Inca is indeed a strong pick, but so is Mansa Musa of India, Willem of Mali, and Pacal II of Ottomans. In fact, the only leader/civ combo that isn't that strong of a pick is Pericles of Maya!

...Wait, that's my pick!

Ahem. What I was trying to say, is that my ranking of #4 is not due to the leader/civ pick, but rather based on my perception of mackoti's skill. Though, of course, there is the fact that the value of the Philosophical trait (And by extension the specialist economy) fluctuates greatly based on whether one can land the Pyramids and the MoM (with the GL coming in third). And while I am not guaranteed to land the Pyramids, I have an ingenious little plan that is sure to land me the Mausoleum. Look forward to it.


-I will. Thanks for your encouragement!

T-hawk Wrote:Hey, what? I can understand carrying the reputation of Sullla and Speaker into future games, but the reputation of India?

It's not Sullla and Speaker, it's the light purple.

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[SIZE="3"]Speculations from the Acropolis[/SIZE]

-I get the rank of 'least threatening player' on everyone's lists.
-Ruff is going to play with an extremely silly variant ruleset. (Based on the storm of posts in his thread)

While we're passing time waiting for the map to be finished, and also since there's talk of a tenth PBEM game, I thought I would post the tally of civs that have been chosen in RB's multiplayer games thus far. Enjoy.

[SIZE="3"]Tally of civilisations chosen in RB PBEM / Pitboss[/SIZE]

Figures are for PBEM and Pitboss respectively. (Pitboss in brackets)

India 5 (3)
Ottomans 5 (2)
HRE 2 (3)
Arabia 1 (0)
Greece 1 (1)
Native America 1 (0)
France 1 (1)
Japan 1 (0)
America 1 (0)
Persia 1 (1)
Byzantium 3 (3)
Ethiopia 1 (0)
Celt 1 (0)
Rome 2 (3)
Germany 1 (0)
Egypt 2 (1)
Khmer 1 (0)
China 1 (0)
Inca 4 (3)
England 1 (1)
Maya 3 (1)
Viking 1 (0)
Aztecs 0 (1)
Babylon 2 (1)
Mali 2 (3)
Carthage 0 (2)
Zulu 0 (2)
Sumeria 0 (2)
Korea 0 (2)
Portugal 0 (1)
Spain 0 (1)
Russia 0 (0)
Mongolia 0 (0)
Dutch 0 (0)

*Updated with PBEM 8 and 9

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The top five most common picks are India (8), Inca (7), Ottomans (7), Byzantium (6) and a tie between Mali (5), HRE (5) and Rome (5) for 5th place. It is also worth noting that apart from the Maya/Byzantium pick, the civ picks in PBEM 8 are identical to those of PBEM 9.

Here is your start.
Good luck!

The sun rises on the Graeco-Mayan empire.


A nice looking start it is. Also, it seems that I have already met Pegasus!

The start is fairly rich in resources, with fish, grassland sheep and furs. There is also a clams resource to the East, and it would be possible to claim it should I settle on the sheep. That would, however, be a waste.

Settling in place is another option, but by the looks of it the peninsula doesn't go much further- or rather, the edge of the peninsula can already be seen. Settling in place allows me to start teching on turn zero, but it also means that the clams resource will never be used since there would not be enough space for another city to the East.

There is also the option of moving my settler 1W, onto the forested plains hill, which will free up space for the city to the East. It gets me additional defense and a free hammer in my capital, so it's quite a good move.

In the meantime, while mulling over these options, I moved my scout southwest, onto the forested hill.


Wheat! Though I don't recall ever seeing it growing on grassland before...

The decision seems to have been made for me, then- the future capital of Athenai will be settled on the hill.

EDIT: (Obviously I moved my Settler 1W.)