Well, in a rambling email chain each player has volunteered to call this game in favor of India. Congratulations, Kyan!
I actually think we've all pretty much said whatever it is we really wanted to say in that email chain. I had some lengthy thoughts on the game which I suppose I will get around to posting, but I don't much care right now, I'm happy enough to say that I enjoyed playing with everyone, and I apologize for all the really mean things I said about everyone in my lurker thread.
If the Admins want to move this to completed games, that is indeed what it is.
Gaspar Wrote:and I apologize for all the really mean things I said about everyone in my lurker thread.
really? how could you?
umm ... better go edit/censor mine then
wow... this ended really quickly and suddenly.
I can't believe you guys actually started AFTER pbem11.
luddite Wrote:wow... this ended really quickly and suddenly.
I can't believe you guys actually started AFTER pbem11.
I can't speak for the rest of the players, but from our point of view it was a really unsatisfying game to play in. I'm still not quite in the mood for a post-mortem, but that had a lot more to do with us suggesting calling it so quickly than the fact that Kyan was a runaway (he was, just saying that in itself had little to do with my burnout on this game.)
Essentially, we wasted 4 months on a failed experiment.
Well cheer up Gaspar! PBEM 14 is shaping up to be a supremely interesting game if I do say so myself.
I have to say when the NAPs got signed and it was apparent there would be no early dogpile while Tredje had phracts, it was pretty much game over. I zoned out a bit while reading once that happened. Of course, you already knew that, right Gaspar?
I'm not depressed - I learned a lot about what its like to be actually involved in these things from this game.
I think the most interesting thing is that from minute 1 it was obvious India would need to be dealt with harshly and collectively and I made it the goal of my diplomacy to make that apparent. Throughout all that talk, I was oft accused of being paranoid by both my teammate and several of the other players. Amazingly both Malakai and GE, to varying degrees ended up hopping in bed with India at some point. Somewhere around there I gave up and just asked Nakor to handle all our diplomacy because I clearly sucked at it. More credit, of course, to Kyan the diplomat. Hell - I seriously considered his Faustian bargain at the end, and were it not for the fact that I would have felt dirty for backstabbing Tredje, probably would have taken it and tried to figure out how we could manage to sneak a spaceship off or something.
There was only ever going to be one winner, and the game must've been miserably boring to lurk, but it was an interesting study in MP diplomacy for me. Its also my first experience meeting Nakor, who's a much better fellow than you all give him credit for. He's very misunderstood.
I'm glad I signed up, but I'm also glad its over.
I think you guys should have just MMed better tbh. Toroidal map on duel, Pacal should have been able to out tech Peter of India...
Ok, well, i think i owe you all the respect of not judging anything until i have read your thoughts so i don't want to overly comment on anyone's play just yet. I will try my best to read everyone's thread in full eventually though.
So, for now, let's whinge about the map. I, of all people, know how difficult making a map can be. I royally cocked up PBEM10. However, this map is just impossible. The duel setting made maintenance a joke and Ref also worked out that corporations were going to be screwy as hell!
Upon first seeing the map, i didn't know whether to be ecstatic or mortified. All forests and no rivers... it's a map designed for my leader/civ pick. financial are indirectly nerfed and EXP gets an enormous boost.
Thing is though, whilst that's all great, i could never really win. If i manage to win the game- i won because im expansive India. If i don't win- wow, with that combo how crap must you be? It wasn't too pleasant. So, my thinking was just to play to the best of my ability and try put this out my head. It's probably my best game on RB so far so i'm fairly happy with the result.
Off-topic meanderings regarding ability stemming from a conversation at end of GE's thread.
I've seen a few posts in GE's thread about ability and the like. I think i have probably improved more than i believed. I never played civ 4 until reading Sullla's website and the apolyton demogame etc. I found the game really interesting so downloaded via steam and started avidly reading these forums. I am a gamer anyway so i picked up most of the basics quite quickly and was comfortable on noble when pitboss 2 started.
I was crap in pitboss 2 and Babylon only survived by making strong friends and playing the diplo game well. Diplo is the one area where i truly felt confident at this time. I was actually fairly embarassed at my performance in this game and as a result, strived to achieve better. I began re-reading Speaker/Sullla's thread and any other sources of info i could get my mitts on. When PBEM4 was being launched, i truly believed that i was far better suited to the 'greens' game. The tips/tricks and general mindset that i developed from these other threads began to emerge here and i was delighted with how my opening. Krill was totally right though- right at the start. I was probably in the wrong game. I just couldn't see how whosit or Jowy could be in a game of greens if i was in vets- those guys had played against some of the pro's and, aside from a few key errors, had done ok.
Both PBEM4 and 12 feel fairly hollow i guess. Hence, PBEM17. The players in that game are all superb and, by my own reckoning, out of my league. I went against my own self-doubts though and will give it my best there. You're all welcome in the thread and i would love and feedback/input.
I want to say it was enjoyable getting to know you all. I will try to highlight what i feel were key moves- both positive and negative- for everyone but i'd like to read the threads first. I'll do mine for now.
Positive:
Diplomacy. I was feeding fast workers to both Malakai and GE as well as offering deals heavily skewed in their favour. By that point in the game, i knew they couldnt catch up, but by being so generous, i secured a non-aggressive front.
This allowed me to focus all forces in just two cities- both of which were cultural beasts.
Culture, I've never really had cultural battles against another player before so this was new to me. It surprised me just how quickly you can force back the borders of someone who was making a concerted effort to stop that very thing.
Representation/Mercilantism (sp?)/ Caste / Sistine Chapel/ Philosophical / Pacifism
By securing long NAPs, this combo allowed me *so* much flexibility and the map was so food rich. Every new city popped it's borders in one turn and i was generating crazy science. This all coupled with two golden ages actually birthed enough G Scientist for two more...
Negatives:
Land Claiming. I expanded in the wrong direction and should have secured more land than i did. Nakor/Gaspar out-expanded me all game long.
Complacency. I actually got really sloppy with my micro towards the end as i became more disillusioned with the game. With about a billion fast workers, there was no excuse for working any unimproved tiles.
Specialists. My main positive is my main negative. Whilst i milked great people for all they were worth, i did not realise quick enough when their time was past. I should have switched to more cottages earlier than i did. I also lost Kremlin (ok, on the last turn of the game) which i really should have focused harder.
This is taking longer than anticipated. I blame GE (your thread is just...
) and Nakor/Gaspar for posting so much hah.