Realms Beyond Forum

So with the points system as it is, what are your thoughts?

For reference (unless ORG maybe gets put up a notch):

4: FIN
3: EXP, India, Inca
2: CRE, SPI, IND, ORG
1: IMP, PHI, Agriculture Civs
0: CHA, AGG, PRO, All other civs

I have a favoured combination in mind but very curious as to your thoughts.

So are you guys doing points plus snake draft? I wasn't entirely sure. I thought the point of a points-based system was to avoid the imbalance of a snake pick. I feel like a snake pick could prove to be a huge problem since for example you could decide to go with CRE/AGG or something to grab India but then have India and Inca both taken before your return pick.

In any event, I think PHI is criminally underrated in that list. Which means that the obvious choice is Lizzie of non-Agri, but also opens up IMP/PHI on one of the power Civs.

Take Joao of the HRE and outexpand everyone while rushing towards currency-> CoL

Not taking Fin or India needs at least a 5,000 word white paper explaining why.

Taking Lizzy or Vicky is too mainstream

Cha/Ind India and build stonehenge ?

Here's your start, enjoy:

(April 28th, 2015, 15:39)LogicalTautology Wrote: [ -> ]So are you guys doing points plus snake draft? I wasn't entirely sure. I thought the point of a points-based system was to avoid the imbalance of a snake pick. I feel like a snake pick could prove to be a huge problem since for example you could decide to go with CRE/AGG or something to grab India but then have India and Inca both taken before your return pick.

The points is a good way, in my opinion, to not restrict someone from playing with some of the strong toys, but there is a cost for doing so. It's self-handicapping in a way. I enjoy it.

In relation to your example, that is where the first element of strategy comes in. There is an element of guess work as to what your opponents will pick but you can weigh the odds in your favour. So, if we did want (just following your example) Kublai of India then picking Kublai first would give a decent chance of getting shafted as you rightly state. However, pick India first and the chances of this not working out are decreased dramatically. If we have already picked India, who will want Kublai? Only people who have decided to invest 3 points in a civilization. We've taken India already so pretty much only the guy who took Inca. But then Inca do not want CRE... so actually we can guarantee that combo if we take India first.

(April 28th, 2015, 15:39)LogicalTautology Wrote: [ -> ]In any event, I think PHI is criminally underrated in that list. Which means that the obvious choice is Lizzie of non-Agri, but also opens up IMP/PHI on one of the power Civs.

In my view, both PHI and maybe SPI (this might be my naivety) could be viewed as worth around 1.5 points in terms of effectiveness. Doing so would break the system though so for ease, that has not been done. Accordingly, I would agree that PHI is undervalued, but I would disagree strongly in relation to the extent.

This was my list I quickly put together yesterday.

4: FIN
3: EXP, India, Inca
2: CRE, SPI, IND, ORG
1: IMP, PHI, Agriculture Civs
0: CHA, AGG, PRO, All other civs

Choices:

FIN / IMP Random Civ
FIN / PHI Random Civ
FIN / CHA Agriculture Civ
EXP / CRE Random Civ
EXP / IMP Agriculture Civ
EXP / IND Random Civ
CRE / AGG India
ORG/CHA India
IND / CHA India (Build Stonehenge)
IMP / PHI Inca
CRE / ORG Agriculture Civ

Some of these are stronger than others for sure, but it's at least whittled the list down considerably. I still have an absolute, overwhelming favourite though.

(April 28th, 2015, 21:25)AdrienIer Wrote: [ -> ]Cha/Ind India and build stonehenge ?

We have a winner! I feel pretty strongly that this is the best possible combination using the points system available. It's rather unorthodox and does lock us into a Stonehenge build, but for that we get fast workers, semi-CRE trait, the IND trait and +2 happy everywhere.

The downside is that we pick 3rd. Alhazard has gone first and taken FDR. He'll grab an agriculture civ on the way back. This is a solid, if unremarkable pick. I am just really hoping that Twinkletoes89 does not pick India. I would be surprised if he does not so we need a plan B. 'Another' IND leader being picked already is not ideal but if we get our combination, I would be very surprised if he even tried to build Stonehenge. IND/CHA with fast workers telegraphs our intentions very clearly and it's very unlikely we'll be beaten to it thanks to quicker chopping.