May 16th, 2018, 09:45
May 16th, 2018, 22:18
A quick shortlist of civs who leave in the first round:
Too weak and situational:
Brazil (Rainforest bias, you want to chop those not keep them. MG are way too late to make a difference.)
Egypt (That UU..)
France (Right)
Greece under Pericles (If you wanna play, play Gorgo)
Spain (no bonus for religion, trade route boost further hampered by all the nerfs to trade)
2nd round
Okish:
America (The +5 bonus is okish, anything else, meh..)
Japan (Germany is better for district mania, the CS is awesome for Islands/Archipelago)
Arabia (religious Civ, kinda so-so in power)
England (lacking a real bonus apart from Great Admiral Galore, I prefer Commercial Hubs myself, the more water the better.)
Kongo (eh, everything so-so)
Norway (more water, better)
3rd round:
Good which means frontloaded bonuses (Ancient or Classic or awesome overall:
Aztec (perfect for warmongering and building)
China (wonders)
Germany (Hansas)
Greece under Gorgo (Culture)
India (very balanced)
Rome (free monuments, legions, baths)
Russia (Those lavras, free tiles)
Too weak and situational:
Brazil (Rainforest bias, you want to chop those not keep them. MG are way too late to make a difference.)
Egypt (That UU..)
France (Right)
Greece under Pericles (If you wanna play, play Gorgo)
Spain (no bonus for religion, trade route boost further hampered by all the nerfs to trade)
2nd round
Okish:
America (The +5 bonus is okish, anything else, meh..)
Japan (Germany is better for district mania, the CS is awesome for Islands/Archipelago)
Arabia (religious Civ, kinda so-so in power)
England (lacking a real bonus apart from Great Admiral Galore, I prefer Commercial Hubs myself, the more water the better.)
Kongo (eh, everything so-so)
Norway (more water, better)
3rd round:
Good which means frontloaded bonuses (Ancient or Classic or awesome overall:
Aztec (perfect for warmongering and building)
China (wonders)
Germany (Hansas)
Greece under Gorgo (Culture)
India (very balanced)
Rome (free monuments, legions, baths)
Russia (Those lavras, free tiles)
May 17th, 2018, 01:44
So, I was dissatisfied with my quick overview, yesterday and decided to take another good luck at all the civs available for this game.
I am going down the leader name list, which means, first off.
Catherine de Medici for France.
France got a silent buff by the +3 CS for diplomatic visibility which is nothing to sniff at, as veterans of CIV VI warfare know every little bit of CS difference counts. A free Spy, veteran spies and more spies.
The Grand Tour is nice to have, boosting various wonders in the midgame, the Garde Imperiale looks very strong on paper, but seems to encourage a bunker mentality as it is +10 CS on your continent.
Coupled with Chateaus and the tourism double, France encourages one to play cultural.
Which in my humble opinion is easier done with Russia or Greece for those great works, instead of building wonders. And cultural may be a very unrealistic choice for a MP game which seem to be decided by the Renaissance/Industrial Age by a final war so far.
Fun to play in a less competitive environment or if you are forced to take them.
Cleopatra for Egypt.
Egypt has a very, very strong UU which is seriously hampered by the fact of its (still) ridiculous production cost. It still costs double the amount of a chariot and has no melee strength. I mused about doing a horseman – maryannu chariot archer attack, or even a warrior (oligarchy) supported maryannu push.
Anything else? A river specific district and wonder bonus which is alright, if you got the rivers and a boost to trade routes which gives maybe +4 gold per trade route, the idea here is that others want to trade with you for food and you get gold. Because that is gonna happen.
The Sphinx is a faith build for a civ which has no incentive to go for religion.
True variant play if you ask me. The bonuses are all over the place and the Maryannu archer is just way to expensive. The right play in CIV VI is always build cheap units or chop them out and upgrade them.
Frederick Barbarossa
Germany is hands down awesome. The +7 CS allows for early conquests of CS which despite my performance in 7 should be used against pretty much ANY CS you come across maybe and only maybe pausing for Geneva and perhaps Kabul.
Another district for a city is huge, enabling you to take advantage of the Hansa, the best district in the game up there with the Lavra. If you create Hansa/Commercial Clusters and boost them with Craftsmen you are actually able to BUILD stuff instead of just chopping it out in a MP environment.
The uboat comes very late and probably too late to make a difference, but is quite strong. And cheaper to produce unlike certain other UUs which are more expensive.
Hands down one of the stronger civs. Played it in PBEM 7, will probably pass on it.
Gandhi of India
Lends himself to religious play and has a very, very strong early UU the Varu which means warmongering or buildering (made safe by Varu cover). The Stepwell is a nice strong housing boost and the WW is awesome and yet truly to be tried out.
As I have been neglecting my inner builder and religion so far, Ghandi would enable me to resort to my baser instincts if need be. Strong contender to play this time.
Gorgo of Greece
With a special district on the weakest district (cultural) the boost make the districts viable and thus a strong incentive to go culture heavy, augmented by the ability to drink culture from the corpses of your enemies. The wildcard policy is the cherry on the top, a very strong choice. The hoplite has become bearable from useless thanks to the agoge useable on them.
A very strong choice and I have to redeem myself with Greece for my terrible PBEM #2 performance.
Harald of Norway
Norway, poor Norway has finally been boosted but is it enough? Knarr is useful in SP, as is coastal raiding as any player with half a brain will murderize your longships quickly enough. On water maps you could argue that all the boni coming together are worth it, conquer CS, raid and use the production bonus (or abuse it) for production.
If those faith fanatics at Firaxis would just left out the Stave Church which is truly awful. Forests are there to chop and if you want Religion you play something else then Norway.
Sounds appealing on paper, the reality is more harsh I fear.
Hojo Tokimune of Japan
Despite the strong performance by Oledavy in PBEM #4 Japan is actually okish?
The Meiji Restoration adjacency bonus is really not enough to write home about, where Japan shines is half cost Holy Sites, Encampments and Theater Squares, basically enabling you to shoot for an early GG, Religion like Greece. With enough water, your shores are strengthed by +5 CS. The Samurai? Worthless, you can not upgrade into it. Electronics Factory, I have yet to see an industrial/modern era stuff be worthwhile.
Quite appealing with more water. Better choices in a snake pick abound.
Montezuma of the Aztecs.
Oh yeah, Montezuma is one nasty customer. The Eagle Warriors are very strong and boosted by luxury ressources, can capture builders, those can boost districts. All boosts are frontloaded into the ancient and classical era where you want them.
Strong choice, but I am dedlurking suboptimal and I fear I would only be outshined by his performance.
Mvemba a Nzinga of Kongo
Without a hut Relic Nikisi is quite worthless, only the GM boost is appealing an that one was nerfed.
The Ngao Mbeba is actually quite strong if you go for it early, as the bane of swordsman is the archer and city attacks. The Mbanza is very nice, but you really want to chop those forests and rainforests. Religious convert? Meh.
Mediocre choice, take it when everything else is bad.
Pedro II of Brazil
You really do not want to many entertainment districts, you need campus, commercial and maybe even holy sites. Making most of his power useless. The Minas Gerais comes late and need a heavy beeline to be viable. Rainforest bonus? You want to chop those babies.
Mediocre.
Pericles of Greece
The weaker cousin of Gorgo. Viable if you land him and not Gorgo on a civ pick. Else, take Gorgo.
Viable.
Peter of Russia.
Oh, what a nice choice. Larger borders, special district which basically ensures a religion and probably the first. A strong UU which comes in quite when the game enters final war stage in MP and Tundra cities are actually viable. Forgot the grand embassy, Firaxis was a moron there once again.
Builder and Religion choice. One of the strongest civs for a builder together with Rome and Germany.
Philip of Spain
Religion based bonuses without a boost to get one. The +4 CS Is decent, the trade route bonus I nice. The mission could be worth it, but overall no gamechanger here.
True variant stuff.
Saladin of Arabia
Nice in SP pre R&F where the civs where rapid faith producing, religion founding zombies. In MP? Not such much, most of the times you have plenty of GPs to spare. The Mamluk is a very strong knight and the unique building save Arabia from being mediocre. A very, very strong religion based civs, with a myarid of bonuses.
Religion and builder with a strong UU. Yeah goes on the list.
Teddy
+5 CS is nice but all other bonuses are just not that strong. Thankfully this civ was boosted a bit by the diplomatic slot is a wildcard which makes Classical Republic a strong and viable choice for this civ.
Better civs are around, clearly the middle of the pack.
Trajan
Rome is just insane. Free monuments, bonus on baths which replace aqueducts, a strong UU, free roads? Rome is madness.
Imo clearly the strongest choice for a civ at the moment. You can not go wrong with Rome and you can warmonger or build in equal measure.
Victoria
Unique district means a strong civ. Water based bonuses, 2 strong UUs, even with Firaxis back and forth, they are still very strong.
Played them in PBEM #4, so as Germany unlikely to catch my attention now. Very strong still.
I am going down the leader name list, which means, first off.
Catherine de Medici for France.
France got a silent buff by the +3 CS for diplomatic visibility which is nothing to sniff at, as veterans of CIV VI warfare know every little bit of CS difference counts. A free Spy, veteran spies and more spies.
The Grand Tour is nice to have, boosting various wonders in the midgame, the Garde Imperiale looks very strong on paper, but seems to encourage a bunker mentality as it is +10 CS on your continent.
Coupled with Chateaus and the tourism double, France encourages one to play cultural.
Which in my humble opinion is easier done with Russia or Greece for those great works, instead of building wonders. And cultural may be a very unrealistic choice for a MP game which seem to be decided by the Renaissance/Industrial Age by a final war so far.
Fun to play in a less competitive environment or if you are forced to take them.
Cleopatra for Egypt.
Egypt has a very, very strong UU which is seriously hampered by the fact of its (still) ridiculous production cost. It still costs double the amount of a chariot and has no melee strength. I mused about doing a horseman – maryannu chariot archer attack, or even a warrior (oligarchy) supported maryannu push.
Anything else? A river specific district and wonder bonus which is alright, if you got the rivers and a boost to trade routes which gives maybe +4 gold per trade route, the idea here is that others want to trade with you for food and you get gold. Because that is gonna happen.
The Sphinx is a faith build for a civ which has no incentive to go for religion.
True variant play if you ask me. The bonuses are all over the place and the Maryannu archer is just way to expensive. The right play in CIV VI is always build cheap units or chop them out and upgrade them.
Frederick Barbarossa
Germany is hands down awesome. The +7 CS allows for early conquests of CS which despite my performance in 7 should be used against pretty much ANY CS you come across maybe and only maybe pausing for Geneva and perhaps Kabul.
Another district for a city is huge, enabling you to take advantage of the Hansa, the best district in the game up there with the Lavra. If you create Hansa/Commercial Clusters and boost them with Craftsmen you are actually able to BUILD stuff instead of just chopping it out in a MP environment.
The uboat comes very late and probably too late to make a difference, but is quite strong. And cheaper to produce unlike certain other UUs which are more expensive.
Hands down one of the stronger civs. Played it in PBEM 7, will probably pass on it.
Gandhi of India
Lends himself to religious play and has a very, very strong early UU the Varu which means warmongering or buildering (made safe by Varu cover). The Stepwell is a nice strong housing boost and the WW is awesome and yet truly to be tried out.
As I have been neglecting my inner builder and religion so far, Ghandi would enable me to resort to my baser instincts if need be. Strong contender to play this time.
Gorgo of Greece
With a special district on the weakest district (cultural) the boost make the districts viable and thus a strong incentive to go culture heavy, augmented by the ability to drink culture from the corpses of your enemies. The wildcard policy is the cherry on the top, a very strong choice. The hoplite has become bearable from useless thanks to the agoge useable on them.
A very strong choice and I have to redeem myself with Greece for my terrible PBEM #2 performance.
Harald of Norway
Norway, poor Norway has finally been boosted but is it enough? Knarr is useful in SP, as is coastal raiding as any player with half a brain will murderize your longships quickly enough. On water maps you could argue that all the boni coming together are worth it, conquer CS, raid and use the production bonus (or abuse it) for production.
If those faith fanatics at Firaxis would just left out the Stave Church which is truly awful. Forests are there to chop and if you want Religion you play something else then Norway.
Sounds appealing on paper, the reality is more harsh I fear.
Hojo Tokimune of Japan
Despite the strong performance by Oledavy in PBEM #4 Japan is actually okish?
The Meiji Restoration adjacency bonus is really not enough to write home about, where Japan shines is half cost Holy Sites, Encampments and Theater Squares, basically enabling you to shoot for an early GG, Religion like Greece. With enough water, your shores are strengthed by +5 CS. The Samurai? Worthless, you can not upgrade into it. Electronics Factory, I have yet to see an industrial/modern era stuff be worthwhile.
Quite appealing with more water. Better choices in a snake pick abound.
Montezuma of the Aztecs.
Oh yeah, Montezuma is one nasty customer. The Eagle Warriors are very strong and boosted by luxury ressources, can capture builders, those can boost districts. All boosts are frontloaded into the ancient and classical era where you want them.
Strong choice, but I am dedlurking suboptimal and I fear I would only be outshined by his performance.
Mvemba a Nzinga of Kongo
Without a hut Relic Nikisi is quite worthless, only the GM boost is appealing an that one was nerfed.
The Ngao Mbeba is actually quite strong if you go for it early, as the bane of swordsman is the archer and city attacks. The Mbanza is very nice, but you really want to chop those forests and rainforests. Religious convert? Meh.
Mediocre choice, take it when everything else is bad.
Pedro II of Brazil
You really do not want to many entertainment districts, you need campus, commercial and maybe even holy sites. Making most of his power useless. The Minas Gerais comes late and need a heavy beeline to be viable. Rainforest bonus? You want to chop those babies.
Mediocre.
Pericles of Greece
The weaker cousin of Gorgo. Viable if you land him and not Gorgo on a civ pick. Else, take Gorgo.
Viable.
Peter of Russia.
Oh, what a nice choice. Larger borders, special district which basically ensures a religion and probably the first. A strong UU which comes in quite when the game enters final war stage in MP and Tundra cities are actually viable. Forgot the grand embassy, Firaxis was a moron there once again.
Builder and Religion choice. One of the strongest civs for a builder together with Rome and Germany.
Philip of Spain
Religion based bonuses without a boost to get one. The +4 CS Is decent, the trade route bonus I nice. The mission could be worth it, but overall no gamechanger here.
True variant stuff.
Saladin of Arabia
Nice in SP pre R&F where the civs where rapid faith producing, religion founding zombies. In MP? Not such much, most of the times you have plenty of GPs to spare. The Mamluk is a very strong knight and the unique building save Arabia from being mediocre. A very, very strong religion based civs, with a myarid of bonuses.
Religion and builder with a strong UU. Yeah goes on the list.
Teddy
+5 CS is nice but all other bonuses are just not that strong. Thankfully this civ was boosted a bit by the diplomatic slot is a wildcard which makes Classical Republic a strong and viable choice for this civ.
Better civs are around, clearly the middle of the pack.
Trajan
Rome is just insane. Free monuments, bonus on baths which replace aqueducts, a strong UU, free roads? Rome is madness.
Imo clearly the strongest choice for a civ at the moment. You can not go wrong with Rome and you can warmonger or build in equal measure.
Victoria
Unique district means a strong civ. Water based bonuses, 2 strong UUs, even with Firaxis back and forth, they are still very strong.
Played them in PBEM #4, so as Germany unlikely to catch my attention now. Very strong still.
May 17th, 2018, 01:46
So, as I want to go for a religion, this means, my choices are in order from 1st to 5th:
1st Russia (I want to go religion and not be tempted by a UU to go for conquest)
2nd India (yep, religion and Varu)
3rd Arabia (more religion)
4th Japan (religion, yep)
5th Greece (Gorgo obviously)
Spain (at least I can complain that way)
1st Russia (I want to go religion and not be tempted by a UU to go for conquest)
2nd India (yep, religion and Varu)
3rd Arabia (more religion)
4th Japan (religion, yep)
5th Greece (Gorgo obviously)
Spain (at least I can complain that way)
May 17th, 2018, 01:54
1. Cornflakes (play window GMT 1000-1400 ... flexible early game to get in extra turns 1400-0000)
2. oledavy (from PBEM #4: 14:00 - 16:00 GMT, 02:00 - 05:00 GMT)
3. Pindicator (from PBEM #5 0100 - 0600 UTC)
4. Rowain (from PBEM #3: 17:00 UTC - 20:30 UTC)
5. TheArchduke (from PBEM #4: 5:00-7:00, 16:00-20:00 GMT)
6. rho21 (1930-0030 UTC)
We are getting to a point where every player has at least participated in one PBEM before.
Cornflakes
A very good builder, highly analytical. It seems only his military experience and aggressiveness is lacking.
Oledavy
Highly focused, decisive and quick actor. Despite his pessimistic outlook when things go rough, keeps calm under pressure. Truly scary and the most dangerous of the bunch.. A win under his belt.
Pindicator
Good MM, excellent grasp on the warfare side of things. Also has won a PBEM with a mediocre civ to boot, America.
Rowain
Not sure what to make off him. Decent play, but not much reporting and thus not much analysis of his own play which is apparent. A true enigma.
Rho21
As a dedlurker to suboptimal I only have the outside to go by. Still rather focused, aggressive if need be. No pushover.
This is not an easy lineup, maybe with the exception of Rowain, all good to excellent players. This will be tough.
2. oledavy (from PBEM #4: 14:00 - 16:00 GMT, 02:00 - 05:00 GMT)
3. Pindicator (from PBEM #5 0100 - 0600 UTC)
4. Rowain (from PBEM #3: 17:00 UTC - 20:30 UTC)
5. TheArchduke (from PBEM #4: 5:00-7:00, 16:00-20:00 GMT)
6. rho21 (1930-0030 UTC)
We are getting to a point where every player has at least participated in one PBEM before.
Cornflakes
A very good builder, highly analytical. It seems only his military experience and aggressiveness is lacking.
Oledavy
Highly focused, decisive and quick actor. Despite his pessimistic outlook when things go rough, keeps calm under pressure. Truly scary and the most dangerous of the bunch.. A win under his belt.
Pindicator
Good MM, excellent grasp on the warfare side of things. Also has won a PBEM with a mediocre civ to boot, America.
Rowain
Not sure what to make off him. Decent play, but not much reporting and thus not much analysis of his own play which is apparent. A true enigma.
Rho21
As a dedlurker to suboptimal I only have the outside to go by. Still rather focused, aggressive if need be. No pushover.
This is not an easy lineup, maybe with the exception of Rowain, all good to excellent players. This will be tough.
May 17th, 2018, 06:11
You are clearly denying Brazil's greatness. If you keep those forests up for 150 turns, you get 1 science on them when you build a 400 hammers Zoo.
I think Arabia is better than you give them credit for. But you can't wait to get the free Great Prophet (it doesn't even make sense, since the best beliefs are tied to good faith ptoduction, which requires Holy Sites), you need to actively pursue a religion.
I think Arabia is better than you give them credit for. But you can't wait to get the free Great Prophet (it doesn't even make sense, since the best beliefs are tied to good faith ptoduction, which requires Holy Sites), you need to actively pursue a religion.
May 18th, 2018, 02:03
Oledavy down and out, Banzailizard in.
This means probably a more relaxed game, but we will see.
I also had a LONG debate with myself over
Russia or India as a 1st pick.
The Varu is a very strong attacker and defender and a deterrent, but nothing beats Russia to a religion and the sweet DotF.
But if someone aims for a quick stonehenge my advantage evaporates and India would be better.
Yeah, Brazil. Looking good on paper.
Arabia, I concur is very strong.
But if you check out Russia, even the tile purchases alone that you save are worth its weight in gold. Much better then Arabia. And the Varu is as strong as Knight, albeit slow.
This means probably a more relaxed game, but we will see.
I also had a LONG debate with myself over
Russia or India as a 1st pick.
The Varu is a very strong attacker and defender and a deterrent, but nothing beats Russia to a religion and the sweet DotF.
But if someone aims for a quick stonehenge my advantage evaporates and India would be better.
(May 17th, 2018, 06:11)Ichabod Wrote: [ -> ]You are clearly denying Brazil's greatness. If you keep those forests up for 150 turns, you get 1 science on them when you build a 400 hammers Zoo.
I think Arabia is better than you give them credit for. But you can't wait to get the free Great Prophet (it doesn't even make sense, since the best beliefs are tied to good faith ptoduction, which requires Holy Sites), you need to actively pursue a religion.
Yeah, Brazil. Looking good on paper.
Arabia, I concur is very strong.
But if you check out Russia, even the tile purchases alone that you save are worth its weight in gold. Much better then Arabia. And the Varu is as strong as Knight, albeit slow.
May 18th, 2018, 06:10
Cool thing about Arabia is that a Cavalry beeline is easier, because Madrasas are avaiable at Theology. So, you get one of the harder/costlier Eurekas while following your natural civic path to Theocracy (instead of a science detour to Education), while also having the beakers from Universities avaiable for it.
But Russia is bonkers strong. Half cost Holy Sites are just too good. You end up discounting most of your other districts as well. And someone would likely have to go Stonehenge before settler to beat you to a religion, to be fair.
If the maps is continents, though, thinking about a naval advantage might be in order.
But Russia is bonkers strong. Half cost Holy Sites are just too good. You end up discounting most of your other districts as well. And someone would likely have to go Stonehenge before settler to beat you to a religion, to be fair.
If the maps is continents, though, thinking about a naval advantage might be in order.
May 19th, 2018, 22:13
Up first is Pindicator who will lead on the mighty Aztecs
Cornflakes is up next with Brazil
TheArchduke will take Russia to the world stage
Rowain plans to go Spartan style with Gorgo's Greece
rho21 will command the legions of the Roman Empire.
and last but not least Banzailizard has a chance to rule with Germany
Only Brazil is suprising. Someone is hoping for MGs Galore.
Apart from that a lot of STRONG picks. No china though and I am the only real religious civ though.
Cornflakes is up next with Brazil
TheArchduke will take Russia to the world stage
Rowain plans to go Spartan style with Gorgo's Greece
rho21 will command the legions of the Roman Empire.
and last but not least Banzailizard has a chance to rule with Germany
Only Brazil is suprising. Someone is hoping for MGs Galore.
Apart from that a lot of STRONG picks. No china though and I am the only real religious civ though.
May 20th, 2018, 10:22
Russia is bonkers to play...really strong choice. Should be a good game.