[PB81 Mjmd] Heave Away

[Mjmd]

T133

Shore Fishing Game



I meant to do food instead of score. I am about even with him having a ton of farms. GNP looks depressing post GA, but in reality I'm almost already above what I was in it and only 100 behind him (and he is creative). The power of courthouses.



The main problem is the production graph there. TBS did land AP as predicated. I think I would have been 1-2 turns behind if not for Nauf, but maybe same turn /shrug. Merc Rep is quite good. But I will catch and surpass GNP. Part of the scary thing is TBS doesn't even have that many forges and therefore isn't working engineers. This is just workshops, mines, and a few lumber mills. I mean its also almost continuous GAs. I do think he is about done with current, but he will still be above me. The next problem is the banked great scientists. If I had to guess goal is astronomy. Nauf did find spots for 2 cities, so maybe TBS either wants to contest or go after one or both of us.

Nauf did renew his fish for fish with me 4 ish turns ago. He has a carrack passing my northern coast atm. Curious if it has settlers on board or military. I have thought of buying my city back now that I'm out of a GA, but I'm worried it would look aggressive (IE he might take it as I will take it if he doesn't comply). So I'll wait until I have the forces to take it if he doesn't comply. Anyone know if the progress on Moai will still be there? Assuming decay hasn't eroded.

[Mjmd]

T143

When the Willie Went Down



I've been playing this game WAY too casually since Nauf torpedoed me. I went for optics just because to have really. No real need. But it cost me pressure at lib. There is 0 chance of me getting Lib. TBS put at least 1 turn into already, but I could have gotten phil at least and been just education off. TBS is going to lib Democracy. The only good thing is I don't think anyone who has built Statue has won a game in CtH yet.



TBS will also get Taj of course, but he did obsolete MoM without a 3rd GA being fired off (too many scientists born).

Anyways, I've been in builder mode. Finally took the barb city this turn. Settled 1 filler (TBD name atm) this turn. Capital will 2-3 turn settlers the other three. I probably will go education after paper just to put some pressure on and get universities started. Will then maybe get printing press. A very key tech to GNP competitiveness. TBS got UoS of course and is 900 vs my 600 GNP atm, but printing press should help quite a bit. Again TBS is doing the no cottage variant vs my a lot of cottages.

I am playing risky with my 2 man GA. I made a mistake and was working an engineer at Nelsons Blood. Should have been a merchant the whole time. Its the one type I'm NOT working at Grimsby. The spy % at Grimsby is low because I just started working. Whatever pops from Nelson I'll drop from Grimsby. Its only a turn behind atm, but depending on my risk tolerance say 14 turns to next GA. Nauf hasn't fired his first yet. Hoping to have Moai done at Tough Old Town by then, which is another reason not to push risk tolerance as I don't think Moai will be done till around then anyways.

Maybe tomorrow or next day I'll name my city and show off TBS land since he isn't reporting. Assuming I get some lurker requests for such and any other questions.

[superdeath]

couple questions.

Do you believe you had to attack me (still)? Or would attacking TBS thru the shitty isthmus been better?
What would you say are the winning chances of everyone currently playing?
From what you have seen thus far, how would you rate each starting position if played by yourself?

[Mjmd]

couple questions.

Do you believe you had to attack me (still)? Or would attacking TBS thru the shitty isthmus been better?
What would you say are the winning chances of everyone currently playing?
From what you have seen thus far, how would you rate each starting position if played by yourself?

I'm not counting this for my request for lurker attention! SD looks to have interacted with everyone.

I will answer his questions of course:
- 100%. Lets say I had picked my fast India and could road through jungle and settled copper city first. It still doesn't make sense. The road through jungle is important and settling south as well, because I'm 10 tiles from even TBS copper city, and mind you I knew nothing of his land. Mind you I didn't even know he was my neighbor at the time. For all I knew I bordered Nauf and would have given more land to TBS. Or either could have been farther away. But even still if you are given a dual, you win your own dual. I assumed Nauf would do the same. He did back in PB61. However, that side of the continent wasn't conductive to settling towards each other or much early tension other than at the isthmus border. Even if  I'm WILDLY successful and take over TBS easily I then have a strung out empire and a guaranteed 2v1. This way I have a very limited border and someone scarier than myself. In a sane world having TBS as a scary threat should keep me out of 2v1 scenarios and safe from Nauf.......... Heck if Nauf goes Gav mode and and tries to win his dual via HAs then I don't have to do anything against TBS and instead have a dual with Nauf. Which is somewhat scary, but his econ would have been slowed down like mine was.
- 92% TBS. If Nauf hadn't torpedoed me, everyone's chances go up. Right now TBS is double me in GNP (he finally went 100%) and production. Now again, I get things like printing press and TBS will obsolete colossus eventually, but still he has quite a lead. 5% me. 3% Xist. This goes up depending on how fast he can conquer the rest of his continent, but his score has been pretty bad and based on demos and knowing where Nauf and I are I think he is below Nauf on gnp and prod if ahead in score probably due to land and pop. 0% Nauf. Like his best chance is if I get in a damaging war with TBS, but even still I think then Xist wins instead of Nauf. If he had gone for earlier overseas settling he maybe could have had a % or two chance. Mind you maybe there is enough astro land for both these scenario %s to increase.
- Early game I like your land and TBS land for the good food (TBS in particular). Later game I like our combined land due the rivers. Sure the northern plains area isn't the commerce dream land, but its still 3 mediocre commerce cities. And the southern area is quite good. If TBS wasn't America and gotten free mids I think this game looks much different. Nauf got the least land, not a lot of 6f tiles same as me, and not a lot of rivers. Not sure why TBS didn't get his start, but I'll assume it was random instead of by skill.

[superdeath]

Fair. Thanks!

[klops]

Well, I would like to see the other half of the continent

92% TBS is a pretty discouraging estimation. Do you think your builder-spree can get you closer?

[Mjmd]

Well, I would like to see the other half of the continent

92% TBS is a pretty discouraging estimation. Do you think your builder-spree can get you closer?

T145

Life Savers Lament



If you need Nauf land let me know, but I know he has been reporting a bit. I have to admit taking a closer look made me realize where TBS missing city probably is. I've been wondering for a bit, but haven't given it much thought.



This game was probably over when Nauf attacked me. He just gave TBS an easy win because reasons???..... 92% might be low. I'm an optimist at heart. Again, TBS is about to lib democracy and has Taj GA coming at some point. On the plus side notice the 0 cottages. Look at all the coast tiles being worked. While a 2/0/3 tile is average with a lot of my average hamlet / village my villages will gain a commerce from printing press and whenever he researches paper he will be down a commerce. Also, obviously mine will continue growing. I can build markets and banks and I get more from them. TBS is basically operating a wonder + specialist economy. But it has been effective. Look at these graphs.



Just casually double. Now I do have more cities to settle / a few recently settled. There is also a reason I included the power graph as I think this is a bit deceiving. Obviously he builds his UB library, at least 6 universities (and  oxford), the monk buildings, wonders, but he doesn't even have forges in all his cities (although most do now). He doesn't have courthouses. He obviously isn't building markets. He isn't building military above a slow trickle. So what is all that production going into? Almost certainly some # of wealth builds. So the high GNP is both buffed by culture from creative, monk buildings, and wonders, but is also inflated from wealth builds. I fully expect to be able to match and exceed his GNP. The production on the other hand...... The downside to cottages is those aren't windmills, mines, or workshops.

So can I builder my way out? Maybe. I am a builder at heart. Its the main reason I withdrew my concession. If nothing else I get to have fun building.

[Mjmd]

T146

TBS got Lib, Taj, and a GE this turn. I am doubting my 92%; probably not high enough? I will have words for Nauf after this game. If you are going to torpedo the person who is supposed to be stopping / competing with TBS in an utterly stupid move then it is your job to from the sea raze at least 1 of his cities.

[klops]

Thanks. Strange to see "no cottage" working so good, when I was told to build them asap and work them all the time.
Also, lots of population alive. But those specialists and mines do need farms to support. I always thought that farm are sort of wasted tiles "just" to feed another pop, or needed if there is no resource. (probably silly, i am not a very skilled player)

[Mjmd]

It can be very competitive, but it relies on getting the wonders. In this case because the America UB is busted in CtH currently he got free mids for representation. All the had to do was research Metal Casting which got him his other key economic wonder in Colossus. He then used those two econ wonders to make sure he got the other key ones like AP and Sankore. Representation gets even better with mercantilism as well. He is also Phil, so working specialists is another form of econ because he can use the great people generated.

This is pretty key as well. He was also only one of two players who didn't get involved in an early war. TBS easily could have gotten derailed if Gira hadn't been attacked (and been on top of things). Gira is industrious and could have stolen colossus and/or AP if he hadn't been hit. The only other player who didn't go to war was his dual partner Nauf, who built a good wonder in Great Lighthouse, but then did nothing for a while before hitting me and then belatedly realizing that TBS was indeed winning and made a half hearted attack vs TBS then that did nothing. Being left alone with a combo while everyone else gets slowed down is always nice, but not something reliable most games.

But ya in most games build cottages. I will say serfdom is pretty good in CtH. I used in winning PB75, but I still had 60 odd cottages in my core between like 7 cities. Generally you only really need like 7 commerce cities to be competitive. You want to concentrate your cottages in a few cities so the modifier buildings get more out of them and they are expensive to build. I actually probably overdid my commerce cities this game. I have 11, but a lot of them are very mediocre. Cold waters probably should have been a production city even though its on a river (sucker for rivers) with a wine. I'm feeling the lack of military cities. All the ones I've settled recently and will settle will be, but still I'm glad TBS only did 1 round of safety drafting (he double played me since I last reported). But again, it does mean I should be able long term to catch up. Its just I'm starting pretty far behind from my rush, losing worker during rush, and then Nauf attack. Nauf chose a weird leader / civ pair that didn't combo, didn't use his leader half, and ignored his civ pick for a while in favor of hurtng me and grabbing a worthless city to him. I'm curious how much astro land there is, but I hope he at least gets all that is near TBS.