WW 46: Wolves Return to Realms Beyond

[BRickAstley]

I'm not quite sure I agree they didn't do that much unless you're talking purely about deaths. The issue is we had to play around all these roles, and that left us with such limited choices. For example, the only reason the SK and Doctor had no anti-wolf effect in raw deaths was because we landed our big shot, but they had ripple effects on who could and couldn't be targeted. The sheer existence of the Dr/SK/Vig trio really limited night kill options late in the game because they needed to all die to have a prayer of winning, and that meant we had no margin for error. The lack of some sort of seer to help us find these roles meant by the time we uncovered them all, we literally didn't have enough shots to kill them all before it was game over.

Completely fair.

[superdeath]

Yeah, you can complain about the power setup, but in the end the only powers that mattered murdered lots and lots of villagers.

[Cyneheard]

I'm not quite sure I agree they didn't do that much unless you're talking purely about deaths. The issue is we had to play around all these roles, and that left us with such limited choices. For example, the only reason the SK and Doctor had no anti-wolf effect in raw deaths was because we landed our big shot, but they had ripple effects on who could and couldn't be targeted. The sheer existence of the Dr/SK/Vig trio really limited night kill options late in the game because they needed to all die to have a prayer of winning, and that meant we had no margin for error. The lack of some sort of seer to help us find these roles meant by the time we uncovered them all, we literally didn't have enough shots to kill them all before it was game over.

Completely fair.  

This endgame meant that "bus a wolf Day 5 and try to fight for Day 6" wasn't an option - the ONLY line was to pray that Nauf didn't believe Commodore and votes for Commodore or SD, because we win if either of them got lynched Day 5 (Vig + 2 wolves + Nauf = vig + 1 other die, and wolf vs Nauf = wolf win; Commodore + nauf vs 2 wolves doesn't work either, because we eat Commodore and win). If Commodore didn't have the Doctor role, then we had the option to throw over a wolf, eat Superdeath and see what happens. Either Superdeath has to take his shot Night 5, or it's a 3-player Day 6 that is a little less obvious (would Nauf/Comm/Serdoa be an obvious Serdoa gets lynched if Serdoa had spent Day 5 pushing SD is right, let's get Charriu?).

[pindicator]

pindi: I think if town even thinks for a second they must realize that there is no reason to mistrust him, he was on scooter, he didn't budge over to GKC (which would make sense if he was in a wolf-pack with scooter) and I'm honestly not sure what the case was to begin with. Maybe I didn't pay enough attention

My emphasis. I feel like I got brought up so much that I was on the top of everyone's list no matter that it was a different reason each time.

But i ranted about that in my QT too...

[Chevalier Mal Fet]

Yeah, you can complain about the power setup, but in the end the only powers that mattered murdered lots and lots of villagers.

To be fair, my instincts are so bad that killing me probably helped the village. That was the right call.

[Lewwyn]

Yeah, you can complain about the power setup, but in the end the only powers that mattered murdered lots and lots of villagers.

To be fair, my instincts are so bad that killing me probably helped the village. That was the right call.

First games are like that. It gets better!

[Rowain]

GG all. And nice work Brick
Having a game where the real SK doesn't kill but the vig jumps in to do his job was great.

[Winston Hughes]

Mad game, so good to follow.

gg all

Getting shot by both the village and the wolves feels about right.  

That is some achievement.

[Serdoa]

I enjoyed this game, even though at times it was nerve-wracking and also frustrating. Though I think that is part of these games, so not unexpected really. What also is expected that we are looking after the game for explanations why some things happened or if and how the setup might have been imbalanced. I think that is a good thing, as long as it is meant as an exercise to better the game for all in the future and not in taking away from those that won or belittle those that lost.

With that foreword out of the way: The takes I have so far read about the setup resonate mostly with my own. I do believe that there have been too many town-roles that have been too strong. The simple truth is, we had to work around all of them while not only having to dodge the lynch but also having a high chance (26% already on N1) to be killed at night as well. And that chance did go up to 33% by N2 – times 2 as now there have been two killers around at night besides us. Had we not changed the position of Meiz and scooter, we would have been down to two wolves already at that point. I also don’t think changing the wolf-roles from 1-shot to multi-shot would have made a difference. The issue was not to have more uses of our abilities, the issue was keeping the wolves themselves alive. And also being able to actually freely act, instead of having to react to what else was happening.

That said, we as wolves nonetheless have made our erroneous plays as well. Killing pindicator twice was certainly not the best move in hindsight. We had our reasons to do so, but they were mostly outside of the game. That the lynch-attempt on him failed too, because Rowain was stubborn and Comm didn’t realize it, didn’t help. That probably was for me the only really frustrating part of the game, mostly because the lynch on Rowain seemed unnecessary and I can’t understand that no other player tried to at least argue it. I should have realized at that point, that others were probably as exhausted as I was and were just going with the flow – making killing the one directing that flow a priority.

Anyhow, thanks for the game BRick, thanks everyone for playing and special thanks to my wolf-buddies. We might not have won this battle, but the war is not over! (If we roll the same roles next time again, at least )

[Rowain]

@Serdoa
Not killing Commodore on N 3 was imo the only mistake the wolves made. At that time there were only 3 "talking" players left and only 1 of them was a villager able to drive lynches. Without Commodore lynching SD, pindi, me would have been easy