[pb74 spoilers] Miguelito and Ginger bring about the end of the world

[Miguelito]

It's quite funny seeing Tokugawa cropping up as an opponent in one of these games and it just being totally unremarkable. Just a very normal leader for someone to accept, relative to what he is in baseline.

We probably wouldn't have picked him, because I'm not too fond of Pro, and Ginger is much less, but other people enjoy it. And Agg is top tier at this point.


Mjmd, was 66 supposed to be balanced? I thought it was roll Torusland and go? I was quite frustrated with food and happy, as I extensively documented, but that was bad luck. What I was and still am mad about was the copper. But yes, this rando map compares favourably in terms of perceived balance, although of course I find reasons to complain, like for example island quality as well.



I want to complain about something here as well, but can't really think of anything. I think I actually like our capital better. Twice clam, and unsharable at that, isn't lovely. Wet corn is though. Gavagai obviously didn't underbuild workers like we did.



I said I'm going to accept it, but I'll laugh in Dono's face in 5 turns' time when Deluge starts putting 6 culture per turn on that cow . That's going to be one useless city. Could actually try to buy it.



metal whacked another French stack  
We had most of the WCs out of position, again, to cover the failed settlement. Next turn we'll have 9, and if GKC continues pressing, we'll have to think long and hard how much we care about antagonizing him. 

edit: Now I see that GKC apparently missed his turn, where he was supposed to play after metal. So metal had too little to have a stab at all of his units. Feels bad for GKC, this might decide his game, especially if metal now effectively gets a double turn on him. Lurkers want to weigh in?



Doing some questionable things this turn to eke out Currency a turn earlier, with 0 beakers overflow.

Original demos:


Max commerce:

 

22h in exchange for 25+33(unmodified) commerce, plus 2 food. Plus some GPP shenanigans. Not a no brainer, but I feel it's worth it. If we'll have one thing it'll be hammers.

[Qgqqqqq]

Urgh, I hate missed turns. He missed a war turn? Feels worth bringing up in the tech thread.

My question from before that: what would you be thinking about potentially doing with those chariots?

[Miguelito]

sadly, uninjured wellies are too tough for our unpromoted WCs. Q, the idea is to look for an opportunity to hit a battered stack of GKCs and thus save metal / keep him warm for us. Otoh we really don't want a war right now, and GKC still has better military tech, so the opportunity would need to be perfect to justify it. We're getting construction and would be better prepared in 5 turns or so, but that might be too much for metal.





the latter is aftermeeting greenline





4 Christian buildings finishing for AP to go brrrrrrrrrrr

[Ginger*]

I’m not as keen on immediately teching Construction
Do you want to whip catapults or start dripping spare production into them? Do you want to launch an offensive into GKC/Metal or defend against possible invasion? I don’t think we need catapults for Don or MS, defenses in deluge or GreyGoo are probably better seen to by more axes and spears.

Also I’m actually no longer convinced we should be risking GKC’s ire (and supply cost) with the WC stack when his conquest has already been pretty botched and expensive. Resigning him to a rump state dedicated to vengeance or staying as thorny as possible is probably going to be harder on us than letting him slowly digest Metal

Also since we’re so thoroughly focused on the south as it is, maybe we send MS fish for war with DZ (and DZ the same thing ), our blessing and desire to look elsewhere

[Miguelito]

can one of the true sages tell me please where chop hammers from the marked tile would go, after it's in our borders? Deluge is the older city.
Ginger is against this btw, to my great surprise. He often wins our argmuents.

[RefSteel]

If you chop the highlighted forest (with or without your borders on it) the hammers will go to whichever is higher in the default city list of Deluge or Grey Goo. (If your borders cover it, you'll get more hammers than if it's still in neutral territory, but you'll get something either way.) [EDIT: Also note if DZ chopped it while it was still in neutral territory, the hammers would go to his city ("Sa?? Region"?) and if metal did, the hammers would go to Pusan, though DZ would get more hammers than you would and metal would get fewer, due to distance from the various cities. Whose city it goes to depends only on whose worker completes the chop. I have no idea where or if either other player has any workers in the area or any intent to chop that forest; just explaining the rules for thoroughness.]

Ginger is against this btw, to my great surprise. He often wins our argmuents.

I couldn't tell from the screenshot and what you wrote: What is Ginger against here, and has it been done, or still just planned/argued-about?

[Mjmd]

Interesting Ref, I just always queue a worker who has already moved and then check the chop button (then cancel the order).

[Miguelito]

Religion on a big map
We put the free missionary to work when we founded Second Coming, the rest has all been natural spreads over the past 22 turns. Ironically the capital was last to get it; we speculated the Good Lord was a hard sell for them after all the slaving.
Mirror World regrettably caught English heresy, but we had a missionary in the works in ChatGPT, intended for the island we screwed up, who will show them the light.
We are also working on one for the next city in Seven Suns, which will be planted by the settler who came a turn late over where now is Donovan's

I couldn't tell from the screenshot and what you wrote: What is Ginger against here, and has it been done, or still just planned/argued-about?

I was pondering chopping a wonder in Grey Goo, but Ginger convinced me that it's a waste, as all hammers there should go towards monks-barracks-HE-units.

[Miguelito]

Gavagai finished Great Library and Parthenon on the same turn, 8 turns after we knew he had Aesthetics. Lovely play of his, but for us of course at the worst possible time: We had just finished Aesthetics, so were already invested, were already buying marble for 12 gpt from Picc, but had not had the opportunity to at least collect any of the beautiful 2.5x bonified failgold
For consolation, we're using the marble to build Hagia Sophia now. That way marble isn't a complete loss, although still pretty much, and we figured we have use for it, in a way. We still subside on just 6 workers, who are quite busy with overdue cottaging and some lumbermills, and we have a whole lot of jungle to chop yet. And it'll also give GPP in the NE city so there's that.

When we embarked on the Aesthetics race, we pretty much knew it would end this way, but we still went for cheap + easy adrenaline, and of course can justify ourselves with Epics still being epic for Ind. No failgold is worse than expected though, pity.

We are slowbuilding some failgold with Paya, which I'd only finish if 20-30 turns from now no one has built it, we're starting a GA, and it'd let us skip Philosophy, for the while being - we'd still need it later. Or do we? We'll get Nationalism through Divine Right, so without Philo we only miss out on Liberalism and Communism, but Communism isn't appealing for us anyways because with monk economy we don't want SM so no Kremlin... so basically, no Free Speech. Just save those beakers and stay in Vassalage/Bureau (we're Org!). So, Paya would be good, actually? But failgold also would be....
We can even consider building failgold with Statue of Zeus, also with the 2.5x bonus, but it's pretty bad in this mod, obsoleting at Gunpowder, so nobody might build it?




HAHAHAHAHA that cow!  
Lurkers, by the game rules it legal to buy a city for some gold? Because Donovan might want to get rid of that little sucker...


Reason for some alert is that metal and GKC made peace. Just when we decided to finally get a border with GKC:


Much applause to metal, who stopped GKC's superior HAs+cats+wellies with nothing but spears. Hopefully we will not have to take care of GKC's remainders...

[Mjmd]

As long as its done in good faith you could do a gold for city trade.