The Hills Send Back The Cry [SPOILERS]

[El Grillo]

If I wanted to work a lot of Spy specialists, sure!

I'm not comfortable or experienced with stacking whips to push a mismatched military timing window, it's certainly one of the biggest weaknesses in my play (though you're welcome to point out others after the game :D). If push comes to shove, then I'll grudgingly try to match Adrien whip for whip (that pop distribution tracker will be handy) and hope that my extra promos make up the difference in numbers, but I certainly don't look forward to it. I'd be only two techs to Cuirs if I wanted them, and I think I would.

We're missing screenshots for T88 and T89, but here's the writing on the wall from Adrien:






You don't need research visibility to see trouble... Khan is judiciously beelining Engineering at the cost of the top of the tree, any of the religion line (including Monarchy), and HBR. The truly crazy thing is that Ginger, without Currency, could be completely blindsided here.




We decided to commit to Operation Djenne anyways, after my friend convinced me that even if the wonders aren't on the outer sea, there will be some strong cities there, and some razes would both slow Adrien down and could prompt Khan to consider an attack. So we're going to save gold on the way to Guilds, upgrade HAs to Knights, and send them on their merry way.

Graphs:

One thing I'd be curious about postgame is a contrast of global Power rating throughout the game. It'd be cool if my suspicions are correct and there's a bloody picklepikkl vs greenline war being fought (over their Gems, or maybe the center Marble?).

[El Grillo]

Sorry for poor reporting, my friend is in a bit of trouble with his fiancee's parents (long story short, marry mainland Chinese girls at your own risk) and has been in a bit of a bad mood, so no screenshots from the past couple of turns he's played. Of course, he could leave them for me to play, but we're trying to keep the dream (of two-turn days) alive here

We have 2t left of forced peace with Khan, and I think everyone is holding their breath for Adrien's war declaration. My plan is to hold and fortify the jungle hill on the diagonal between Mount Pleasant and FF Spread, and then reroute the 2-movers elsewhere. Khan doesn't have visibility on the city tile of FF Spread, and his army is all one-movers with tons of defensive bonuses, so it doesn't make sense to strike where he's strongest. Instead, we'll finish a Fort in 3t that will allow our Galleys to start their westward journey, build more 2-movers to take advantage of Ginger, and reinforce our land fronts with Khan with 1-movers (some mix of maces, crossbows, and catapults) that we'll build after swapping into Theocracy for the extra promotion. I'll check the tradeoffs between Bureaucracy and Vassalage, as well.

Hanging Gardens for 18 cities is due in 3t. I'm not entirely sure if the Statue of Zeus will be useful, but I'm leaning towards thinking that it will be, if for nothing else than denial value (it's probably a 2t build for Adrien or Khan if and when they get Aesthetics). Also considering the University of Sankore to pair with cheap Temples.

[ReallyEvilMuffin]

SoZ is extremely annoying to war against. The war weary it can generate can be absolutely crippling to enemies. It's main use is it is quite a deterrent to attacking the owner. It is quite cheap with the ivory too.

So your plan is to dogpile with Adrien?

GJ in his 22 thread had a beuro calculator you could use. Don't forget the reduces unit support costs for vassalage.

[El Grillo]

A quick question: If my friend ends turn, sends the PBEM-generated save onto Ginger, saves the game again, and sends that second save to me, can I open it and take screenshots without causing any issues with either the program or the rules? That would solve our reporting problems for the most part (he'd still have to take screenshots for mid-turn combat, I suppose).

Hmm, Khan 1-turned Aesthetics with no tech selected, so he might beat me to the Statue of Zeus if he gets started on it immediately. Unfortunately, he has a lot more Monuments than me, so I didn't start building the SoZ itself until last turn in my border city, Marchup Cadence. It's a 6t build with one chop incoming, which could be a dicey proposition. At least I'm sure that I'll get the Hanging Gardens, because I don't have any visibility on Khan building it, and Adrien is 1t from Construction as of this turn. On the other hand, Khan did build Chichen Itza in Northolt (I'd completely overlooked it in the production tracking, because the city didn't have an Aqueduct and I was mainly concerned about the Hanging Gardens; also, it's Chichen Itza). It's simultaneously a hassle for any 2-move based attacks and a tasty prize, being as it is right on the border. Of course, this is exactly how my building of the Statue of Zeus will appear to him, if I get it, so there won't be peace for long (enforced peace ends this turn).

My plan with the war is two-fold: 1) partition Ginger with Adrien to improve my position and keep Adrien from getting all of it (this would put us solidly in the top two positions) and 2) garrison my borders with Khan so he doesn't get any ideas (to prevent him from claiming a top two finish at my expense). Now, it's simply not possible that Khan would be so deterred as to attack Adrien instead, what with our bad blood, close borders, and large garrisons, and Khan is almost assuredly going to try another attack on me before all is said and done here, and very possibly next turn :D. The good news is that my 2-movers can reinforce either front and also ward off any landings along the coast of the northern sea, and Khan still lacks HBR so his attack options are very limited. I have 400g+100gpt stocked for emergency upgrades, but I'd prefer those to go to HA->Knights, when possible. I also think that the outer sea fleet will come as a big surprise the first time I use it, and I want to make sure that I use it well, against either Khan or Adrien.

I checked the Bureaucracy calculator and I think Vassalage is better as long as I'm not trying to build some very important wonder and need all the hammer modifiers I can get. Sounds like 5t swaps or so could be in order, Vassalage/Slavery/Theocracy for whipping units and Bureaucracy/Caste/Org Religion for infrastructure.

[ReallyEvilMuffin]

A quick question: If my friend ends turn, sends the PBEM-generated save onto Ginger, saves the game again, and sends that second save to me, can I open it and take screenshots without causing any issues with either the program or the rules? That would solve our reporting problems for the most part (he'd still have to take screenshots for mid-turn combat, I suppose).

Hmm, Khan 1-turned Aesthetics with no tech selected, so he might beat me to the Statue of Zeus if he gets started on it immediately. Unfortunately, he has a lot more Monuments than me, so I didn't start building the SoZ itself until last turn in my border city, Marchup Cadence. It's a 6t build with one chop incoming, which could be a dicey proposition. At least I'm sure that I'll get the Hanging Gardens, because I don't have any visibility on Khan building it, and Adrien is 1t from Construction as of this turn. On the other hand, Khan did build Chichen Itza in Northolt (I'd completely overlooked it in the production tracking, because the city didn't have an Aqueduct and I was mainly concerned about the Hanging Gardens; also, it's Chichen Itza). It's simultaneously a hassle for any 2-move based attacks and a tasty prize, being as it is right on the border. Of course, this is exactly how my building of the Statue of Zeus will appear to him, if I get it, so there won't be peace for long (enforced peace ends this turn).

My plan with the war is two-fold: 1) partition Ginger with Adrien to improve my position and keep Adrien from getting all of it (this would put us solidly in the top two positions) and 2) garrison my borders with Khan so he doesn't get any ideas (to prevent him from claiming a top two finish at my expense). Now, it's simply not possible that Khan would be so deterred as to attack Adrien instead, what with our bad blood, close borders, and large garrisons, and Khan is almost assuredly going to try another attack on me before all is said and done here, and very possibly next turn :D. The good news is that my 2-movers can reinforce either front and also ward off any landings along the coast of the northern sea, and Khan still lacks HBR so his attack options are very limited. I have 400g+100gpt stocked for emergency upgrades, but I'd prefer those to go to HA->Knights, when possible. I also think that the outer sea fleet will come as a big surprise the first time I use it, and I want to make sure that I use it well, against either Khan or Adrien.

I checked the Bureaucracy calculator and I think Vassalage is better as long as I'm not trying to build some very important wonder and need all the hammer modifiers I can get. Sounds like 5t swaps or so could be in order, Vassalage/Slavery/Theocracy for whipping units and Bureaucracy/Caste/Org Religion for infrastructure.

Do you think the group stage game style, with the top 2 progressing, will affect play/decisions at all here?

By all means screenshot away from passed saves.

[El Grillo]

I don't know how much thought the other, more experienced players have given to the game format, but I've certainly kept it in mind. Admittedly, it may be a bit of a stretch to assume that everyone will have the availability and willingness to play not just one, but two PBEMs, but I've set my personal victory condition as a top-2 finish

So now, let's get back to the detailed reports. Note that these are from a post-EOT save, so there's some weird tile assignments and such that I can't change at the moment. Furthermore, when I loaded the save, it prompted me to suggest new builds for my cities, but those aren't showing up in their progress bars either. Better than nothing, I suppose!

In brief:
- we're going to swap into Serfdom next turn to 1t the Statue of Zeus
- tech Theology and Banking within 5t to swap to Rep/Bureau/Caste/Merc/Theo
- build Knights for the Ginger front
- use +3h Workshops to build up infrastructure and a large enough army to keep Khan honest

T94:




The big news is that we finished the Hanging Gardens, fired a Golden Age, and discovered Feudalism with 1t to Guilds. As a reminder, we currently have a Great Artist and a Great Scientist in reserve, with another Scientist at 246/335 (in our island city) and a Merchant at 104/335 (in our National Epic city). From that point, the National Epic city will have enough time to generate another Great Person before the game ends, but we don't have any plans for it just yet.




My friend is paranoid about Khan beating us to the Statue of Zeus, so we decided to focus all of our efforts and finish it next turn. This will be made possible by the magic of Serfdom, allowing us to use two Workers to finish a Mine, one Worker to road a Forest, and two others to chop it. While we'll be hurt by a lack of Caste System, all of our cities at least have 2/0/3 Coast to fall back on, and Serfdom plus newly built Workers will tackle that problem. With 1-turn Roads, we'll finally fix our poor road network, especially in the south. I don't see us staying in Serfdom any longer than 5t, but it also gives us more tactical flexibility if Khan gets frisky.




The other Wonder project we have is the Great Library in our capital. With the build powered by Bureaucracy, the scientists boosted by Representation, and Khan close to Literature, now seems like a good time to secure it. Later, I have thoughts on building the AP/Sankore here, but that might be getting a bit greedy.




Obligatory Golden Age Moai picture. We're going to hand over the remaining Mine to the filler city just north of it and have Stuntsheet One work 12 water tiles while growing onto some supplementary specialists. We can finish the Library/Market and most of the Grocer within the GA, and then we'll 2-turn military builds.




The Heroic Epic chugging along, allowing me to give away the Copper while still 1-turning Trebuchets, the most expensive unit I can currently build. We're going to build 1t Knights here with somewhere between 5-9xp, and maybe some 5xp Trebuchets for Accuracy bombarding for an eventual attack on Khan's Chichen Itza border fortresses.




Speaking of Khan, we have city visibility on all of the cities we know about, except for his capital. He's not showing any particularly dangerous attacking force, so I'm hoping my more modern units will keep him from throwing any more Skirmishers at my cities, but I can't get too frisky, or his naval pressure on the northern sea could make me regret it.





For some reason, I can't get into the diplo screens, so here are F4 screens to show the others' incomes. Adrien's position continues to be frightening, and Khan is doing better than I thought, probably helped by the loads of commerce in the middle. I kind of wish the Rices there hadn't been placed on the diagonal, but in honesty I probably should've claimed the spot more aggressively with Impi when I had the mobility advantage.




The Ginger front is still quiet (he still hasn't done anything with that Settler in the west, even though he's finished Currency). I took the time to offer him Open Borders again, now that he has the slots for it, and I threw in my Sugar as a bonus (couldn't offer gpt). Come on Ginger, help me help you (before you're eliminated).




We're considering moving the Palace here, if we get enough of Ginger's land to make the distance maintenance shift less painful. It has more pure commerce potential than our starting city, and its cottages are effectively on par in development. It's hard for me to say how much more maintenance will be in the north though, so this is only tentative for now.




I've rambled enough, so here are the charts.

Graphs:

[El Grillo]

Khan 3-or-4-pop whipped the Statue of Zeus to completion during his turn in our northern border city. I should just attack him there soon and get the Chichen Itza/Statue of Zeus off the table.

[ReallyEvilMuffin]

Khan 3-or-4-pop whipped the Statue of Zeus to completion during his turn in our northern border city. I should just attack him there soon and get the Chichen Itza/Statue of Zeus off the table.

Steal! Although the ind modifier with the resource makes whipping wonders <just> about OK.

[El Grillo]

As a result, things didn't line up all too well - I still swapped into Serfdom so that my Workers in the north wouldn't waste a ton of actions, but I think I'll stay there for a bit longer and build a half-dozen or so more Workers, making the swap back in 7t, after I get all of the rough terrain 1t-roaded so that future work will be more efficient. I also swapped into Vassalage to start preparing some 5xp Trebuchets. Castles will make bombarding a huge pain, but Accuracy gets me a still-respectable 8%/turn.

Adrien seems to be content slowly building his army and not whipping, so I think I have some time on that front. Ginger refused my trades again. At least he's started on the long path to Feudalism by researching Mysticism. Adrien is 1t to Literature, and Khan finished Polytheism with no tech selected.

[El Grillo]

T97:

Welcome Khan to the golden age club. He's swapped into Bureau and Caste.




I have city visibility on his capital now, which provides some nice visibility due to the hill placement. It's too bad I didn't find any other city sites when I explored earlier, though I have a pretty good idea where they are based on borders and resource placement. I'm fairly certain he has a city either 2E or 1S2E of the Deer, and one ~1S of the Corn. Knowing that his Great General is just relaxing in the capital is very reassuring - I don't have to worry about any sudden Navigation promotions or Morale units coming off of a Galley.




My GNP isn't looking great, but the MFG numbers tell a different story, even though I'm not currently in Bureau myself. If it comes down to a war of attrition where I'm building most of my units and my opponents are whipping theirs, I think that's a positive result for me, as long as I don't get overrun by the initial burst of ~15 Knights that Khan or Adrien will be able to muster.

We're set up to finish the Great Library next turn, hoping that doesn't end up stolen as well. Banking finishes next turn, Theology 1t after. It's too bad Mercantilism is worth swapping into immediately (108 base gold/beakers per turn, and I have no foreign trade routes to lose). I would've liked another 2-3t of Serfdom, but we'll just have to make do. Bureau and a few workshops at the capital will be make for a fairly painless AP build, and then I can go for either or both of the Stone-doubling Sankore/Minaret.