[SPOILERS] scooter - Zara Yakob

[scooter]

So dotmapping is turning out to be a bit of a pain, so this is the "work in progress" currently... First, the southeast corner of this map:



Yellow is the only good site... Well I'm only calling it a "good" site because this is a highlands map, on most maps this would just be okay. Good commerce site though, though the lack of a big food surplus will hurt it somewhat.

Teal and purple are not exactly great sites, but they are all serviceable. I'm probably going to be looking at a lot of windmills down there, as the lack of fresh water leaves me little other choice. Maybe I'll get lucky and find a lake down there in the fog by teal, but I doubt it.

Black is just a terrible site, and I'm not even 100% sure if it's worth settling. If there's no fresh water down there at all then I'll probably skip this site, but I'm crossing my fingers. If it wasn't for that desert tile I could chain irrigate, but such is life.

On to the southwest, where things are a lot harder:



This is why I'm calling this a rough draft. I feel like everthing is very cramped, and I probably need to re-do this to use one less city. I mapped in my two recently founded cities as well as the purple one from the previous screenshot.

The brown city is a bit of a stretch, but I would really like the happy resource, as I don't have a ton... I wish I didn't have to burn a flat grassland tile to settle it there, but it seems better than the alternatives. IW just feels like a weaker site...

Light red is the city that was made much more viable by moving the site of Everglow 1 north. It's still nothing special, but two floodplains is land to die for on highlands. I've thought about irrigating everything humanly possible and just running some specialists here, but I don't know for sure...

Dark red is ... a bit cramped. Actually now that I'm looking at this again, moving it 1 south seems like the best move. I feel like this site is still worth founding, but when I look at what a mess this part of the map is, I can't help but feel there's a more efficient way to do it. Oh well, it's a work in progress.

[scooter]

Well Civil Service came in, so I revolted to Bureaucracy. This turn is the T75 1AD switchover, and I was going to do a big update for that, but doing the update during a turn of Anarchy seems lame, so I'll do it next turn. Had an interesting chat with Bob a couple days ago, but I haven't bothered posting it yet. I might do that tonight... Maybe. I've got to clean it up a bit - most of it was inconsequential, but towards the end it was interesting.

Short version: If Timmy starts to become too much of a runaway, Bob is not averse to the idea of ... solving that.

[scooter]

Also - any lurker opinions on my recently posted dotmaps? I always feel like I do a poor job with city placement...

[scooter]

Okay, some background first. Bob finished the Pyramids a few turns ago, so I took it as an opportunity to do a couple things:

1. Congratulate him on finishing them - build a tiny bit of good will.
2. See if he IS set on engineer rushing the Great Library. I pretty much know he is from what Sandover told me, but it's worth noting to him that I have/had interest in it. Either he would concede it to me (unlikely), he would offer some concession for it (not likely but would be nice), or I would just acknowledge it as his, building some more good will. All 3 outcomes are fine with me.
3. Start to drop hints that I'm concerned about Timmy's expansion, and his potential status as a runaway. Ideally I'd split his land with Bob.

So with those goals in mind, I sent him this message:

Hey,

First off - know what I hate? When you start writing a message to someone, can't finish it so you save it as a draft, and then proceed to forget about it for three days. I'll give you three guesses what happened to this message . Anyways, here it is:

Just wanted to send a quick message to say congratulations on landing the Pyramids! I hope they will be helpful for your great civilization! I do have a question for you if you don't mind answering... Do you have any plans for the engineer that I'm guessing you will eventually get? I only ask because I admit I have some interest in the Great Library, but I realize a common play is using the Pyramids engineer to rush the library, so I'd like to avoid running into a bump like that. If you've got your sights set on the Library, then I probably can't challenge that, but I thought I would check so I don't go for it only to get it engineer rushed or something .

How's things on your side of the world? If you don't mind me asking, how close are you borders to Timmy? He seems to have expanded very rapidly in my direction, so I was curious if you see his borders or not, or if he's just expanding towards me.

If you need anything, don't hesitate to ask!
scooter

P.S. I am assuming that was you who landed the Pyramids... If it wasn't, I'm going to feel very stupid...

Hello,


I am indeed currently enjoying the Pyramids, which have been so thoughtfully provided by my Benefactors, the Universal Union. They well compliment my new Hindu Shrine. I am also interested in the Great Library- with my 2 GE points from the Pyramids, 3 GE points from an engineer specialist, and the 1 prophet point from the shrine, I should have pretty good odds for an engineer to pop relatively quickly, which will then rush the Library. If I don't get the engineer, I have multiple city sites that are excellent for production and little else, and so I think I can build it outright pretty quickly. My teching is probably toward the bottom of the pack, but I do hope to rectify that with some specialists in the coming turns.

As for my corner of the world, I'm also somewhat alarmed at how Timmy has expanded. His latest city was toward me and took a city spot I had my eye on, although to be fair it wasn't close to me at all. It's kind of hard to judge how & where my land border should split with him, as I have a disconcertingly large band of resourceless desert that takes up almost the entirety what should be my "3rd ring" of cities outward from my capital. So there will be a gap between my 2nd ring city and the others I intend to found toward him. I can say for certain that he has a very impressive growth curve... his most recent town had been founded only about a turn or two ago before I uncovered it not long ago, and thanks to a horde of 4 or 5 workers is already size 3 or 4 and has decent infrastructure.

Let me know if his expansion is enough of an issue that you would be willing to do something about it. Other priorities and that aforementioned desert prevent me from doing much more than sending conspiratorial messages at the moment, but as the most critical parts of my economy are now in place, I'll be able to commit much more production to military after a few rounds of settlers / workers. I have no beef with Timmy right now, but if he keeps settling aggressively then I think it's only fair that he have to work to keep his cities, as the barbs clearly aren't doing their jobs


-Bobchillingworth

(emphasis mine - for obvious reasons)

Short version for lazy people who can't be bothered to read a few hundred words:

1. Great Library will be Bob's - not going to fight with him over that. I'd rather gain a friend than steal the wonder.
2. I seem to be off to a better start than Bob, though that can change if he puts the Pyramids to good use. Seems like that'll be hard on this map though..? Maybe I'm nuts.
3. Jackpot!! He's interested in slowing Timmy down - to some extent at least...

This demanded a chat of course... I popped onto GTalk, saw him on, and that led to the following chat. For those in a hurry, scroll down to the last section. Stuff before then is moderately interesting too...

6:52 PM scooter: hey there
you around?
Bob: howdy
yeah, sup?
6:53 PM scooter: just got your email.. congrats again on the mids!
Bob: thanks!
scooter: and yeah - great library's all yours... i dont think i could steal it from you even if i wanted
Bob: hehe, well thanks anyway
scooter: the rest of your message was interesting to me - because it was something i've been considering approaching you about
6:54 PM i think timmy could turn into a runaway if we're not careful...
Bob: agreed
It's an odd spot I'm in though, in terms of settling, his and mine, in our border area
I have space for 3 cities toward him
scooter: he's got only one city more than me, but he HAS to have more workers than me (i'm very low), he's beating me in the important graphs, he's got better population.. etc etc
6:55 PM Bob: with almost no overlap
but one of those locations, the closest to me, is all desert
scooter: oh ouch
Bob: I can't found a city there
I know
6:56 PM so, it goes my capital -> existant city -> unusable desert -> city to be founded fairly soon (but I have to road a long way through desert) -> city location I want -> timmy
the issue is if he takes that last spot
scooter: ahhh... then your REALLY boxed in
Bob: it's still distant from me... but it takes some nice land, which I'm very short on
6:57 PM yeah, I'm gonna be a small empire
nothing I can do about it.
scooter: your in a really bad spot, because you've got sandover to your north who is expanding just about as fast as timmy is
easy to get squeezed
Bob: I started in very lower left corner, but apparently sandover wasn't in the very upper left corner
instead almost in the middle of the left hand side
6:58 PM so he gets a lot of free land to his north
I have nothing at all south of my capital
the world just ends
scooter: ahhh thats rough
so youpretty much up against the edge?
Bob: yeah
that's one reason my score has been so low for so long
6:59 PM I have few land tiles, because several go off the edge of the world
scooter: less land points for one if your against the edge
Bob: exactly
TT must be hurting if I'm above him now
I don't think he has the same excuse :P
scooter: i bet... plus he's super paranoid of sandover. its almost kind of funny
Bob: funny... sure
scooter: yeah, i think he's newer-ish to civ
7:00 PM Bob: I kind of hope they fight but whatever


<snip - pb3 stuff>


Bob: I hope I didn't offend TT- send him a reply back to the email he sent us thanking him for whatever he was talking about, but making it clear that a 3-person secret alliance is never happening
sent*
7:07 PM scooter: haha, yeah i've been trying to gently "back out" of something i was never in
i chatted with him shortly after, and was just totally non-committal with him... think he's getting the hint
Bob: hopefully.
7:08 PM He and moogle are close, but I don't think that moogle is the type to really commit to an alliance in a non-tech trading game




Key part:


scooter: got it
well lets get hypothetical for a second
7:09 PM lets say we try the whole "slow timmy down" thing... when you think of something like that - what timeframe comes to mind?
Bob: well like I said a lot of it depends on what he does
if he stops settling toward me, then I need to fill land gaps
7:10 PM I'll have better things to work on, and I assume the same is the case for you
scooter: right... our borders arent touching yet, although thats not THAT far off currently
7:11 PM Bob: but if he takes what I think is rightfully "my" land, well I can probably get 2-turn praets going in 4 of my cities now
I'm settling a lot of new sites in the future
I'm pretty far behind
so that will take some resources
but eventually pay off
scooter: got it... so from your perspective, it all hinges on how much he continues to push settlers
i'm assuming you have iron right?
Bob: yeah, it just doesn't make sense for me to march praets right now given the distances involved
yes
I've had it for a while
7:12 PM scooter: okay figured as much
Bob: it's in a very secure location
scooter: thats good
Bob: course' not in a tile I can actually work :P
but it's connected
scooter: ahhh, guessing that means its in an akward spot in the corner of the map? that stinks
7:13 PM i guess my position right now is this... i've got better things i could be doing than whipping out an army... all along i've sorta assumed in my head that
7:14 PM that if conflict with timmy ever came, drafted oromos might be it... but if you ring me up in a dozen turns with a "hey timmy's going down, want in?"
i would seriously consider it...
7:15 PM Bob: hmm. I think logistics just don't make it worth it tho
I think we could cripple him together, but then I can't compete vs. Sandover
7:16 PM but what about just keeping the option open? If he doesn't settle toward us, then whatever. If he presses both of us, then we'll both have easy access to his borders if nothing else, and can "prune" them back some
7:17 PM if he only presses one of us, and that part fells compelled to declare, then the other may have good incentive to grab some spoils for themselves
scooter: oh right - thats kind of what i had in mind... in other words if the situation ever demands some intervention, i would consider joining in... meaning no plans currently, but i wont rule it out either
7:18 PM if that makes sense
?
7:19 PM Bob: sure
7:20 PM that sounds good for me
statement of principle / intent
scooter: right

This went pretty much perfectly... We have an "understanding" basically - that we both are open to the idea of splitting his land at some point, and that we won't be shy in bringing it up basically. I imagine I can probably wait a long time for that if need be... I'm sitting at 7 cities, with about, I don't know, maybe 7-8 more sites I can grab? Most of them marginal though...

In a perfect world, basically I'd like to use my good commerce position to get to gunpowder + nationalism quickly, draft out Oromos quickly, and attack Timmy from my front while Bob attacks on the other front. Timmy will either have to defend both sides, or he'll have to pick a side and cave on the other. Either way is a win for me, because if he picks a side, it will be Bob's side to stand on... His capital is much closer to Bob as far as I can tell...

[scooter]

Short "State of Ethiopian Diplomacy" - because it's probably hard to keep track of all these agreements... I'm going to have 2 sections for each - "deals" and "thoughts"

Sandover

Deal(s):
-Full (secretive) intelligence sharing. Any useful intel I get will be passed on to him, and vice versa. Basically we each get a second set of "ears" on the other side of the world, and no one else will ever know about it.
-A full alliance may be considered with him and someone else at some point in this game, but that is in the future still. Dependant on how well our intel sharing goes.

Thoughts:
-I trust him - no reason not to - and he seems to trust me too.
-Going to be one of the key players in this game.
-Can easily rub people the wrong way... Well I don't know about "easily" - but more like it seems if you do something that irritates him, he WILL let you know... apparently TT and SleepingMoogle didn't like that .

Bobchillingworth

Deal(s):
-Nothing in ink, but an "understanding" that we both are willing to consider the option of slowing Timmy down if need be.
-I conceded the Great Library to him, although that might be like me conceding Barack Obama the Presidency, as I probably couldn't beat him out if I tried.

Thoughts:
-Seems very straight forwards, could see myself working with him without much difficulty.
-Doesn't seem to have much of a relationship with Timmy's civ. Actually no one does as far as I can tell.

SleepingMoogle

Deal(s):
-Border agreement where we both agree to notify the other when we are settling in each others directions. We also agreed to put a higher priority on settling west, leaving the land between us for later... This lets us each grab more land.
-An understanding that both of us desire long-term peace. This means that if either of us desires to go to war at some point (pretty likely), our directions would both be west.
-We didn't sign a NAP (I don't plan on signing any), but we agreed that neither of us sees a need to fight for at least the vast majority of the game.

Thoughts:
-I could also see myself working with him long-term, although his diplo style is a bit more foggy than Bob's... It's not bad in my opinion, but it's a bit of a "lots of words without saying much" style, and Bob's is very content-heavy, which I prefer.
-I have no reason not to trust him. Maybe I should be more paranoid, but I do trust him to keep his word.

Twinkletoes

Deal(s):
-None really

Thoughts:
-I've shied away from his talk of a grand alliance, partially because I think it's premature, partially because I think it's only to save him from Sandover, and partially because I think he'll be the first player eliminated.. Or at least knocked out of contention. He's lagging behind already it seems...
-Genuinely nice guy, and I have no problem communicating with him. Relations have been warm, though there hasn't been anything of any real consequence to talk about.
-Would have no issue cooperating closely with him in a game, but it looks unlikely to happen in this game because of the way things are shaping up.

Timmy
Deal(s):
-None really

Thoughts:
-Seemed to be a nice guy, but also seems mostly interested in just quietly playing his game.
-Doesn't seem to have made any friends... Everyone I talk to either forgets about him, or says he's been quiet.
-High potential to be a runaway... He's tearing up the charts.
-Most likely target of Ethiopian aggression at a later stage in the game ... Nothing personal, I just want his land.

[pocketbeetle]

Also - any lurker opinions on my recently posted dotmaps? I always feel like I do a poor job with city placement...

The brown dot, it's a horrible site, but if you're set on it then I would say 1W (or maybe even settling on the stone?).

I think you did consider 1W of brown, (typo IW?) but rejected it for being weaker.

I'm not so sure, looks to me like you swap a jungled hill for a desert hill, and an overlapping riverside plains for a gl tile.
In settling 1W you also turn another desert tile into something productive - your base tile will be 2/1/1.


Dotmaps on a highlands map are always going to be tough.
The only question I would ask is: are you expanding in the right direction?
Are you focussing inwards or looking outwards?

I haven't been following this PBEM closely enough to know all the ins and outs yet.

[scooter]

Wow the lurker thread has been active today! I've definitely noticed it... Only other person to post today has been Moogle... So either he's really up to something, or you're all discussing the diplo situation that I posted..? Fun to speculate. Anyways, turn just showed up in my inbox so I'm going to play now and try to report in the next couple hours... Key word there is "try"

PB, I agree it's a horrible site, and I'm not even sure I'll bother settling it. It's the lowest priority, except maybe that one in the far lower right corner of the map - that one was terrible too. Also - those sites up against the edge of the map aren't what I'll be settling next... I'm going to try to update you on that in this turn's report, so hopefully I can make city settling priorities more clear. Hopefully.

Also, I'm thinking about trying to re-juggle those cities down there slightly, but it will depend on what's in the fog down there against the edge of the map. I may adjust things somewhat so that I just ditch the stone resource (I have one anyways), and found possibly on the plains tile, adjusting red dot as necessary. Not sure exactly, but like I said, it'll depend on what I find in the fog.

[scooter]

This will be lengthy, but will be in several parts... First, I'm just going to screens of all the demographic stuff, and then later I'll walk through all my cities, as well as go over the "contested land" between myself, Timmy, and SleepingMoogle. That's the plan at least... Here we go:



First one is score... Not much worth noting here. I'm about where I'd expect to be.



This is the one screen that gives me hope - that I'm FAR and away the best techer right now with Bureaucracy + Acad - no one else has either one. When I go through my cities, you'll see how many beakers I'm pulling down right now... Enough to research Construction in 3 turns at a very slight deficit (not 100%). I put that one first, because the news gets bad as I go:




Timmy and Sandover are putting the hurt on me here... I'm well aware that this screen is far more important than the GNP one too, so I've clearly got some work to do.



I like to call this screen the "Can you guess which civ is relying on the Great Wall?" screen . Also, my pathetic showing on this graph is the reason I'm researching construction next real quick.

[pocketbeetle]

I like to call this screen the "Can you guess which civ is relying on the Great Wall?" screen . Also, my pathetic showing on this graph is the reason I'm researching construction next real quick.

Sounds like a plan!

[scooter]

Time to walk through my cities. First, the capital:



I hovered over the beakers in the top left corner to see the kind of damage this city is kicking out right now. 60 beakers at the 1AD switchover is pretty solid in my opinion... I'm thinking several civs right now aren't even pulling down 60 from all their cities combined.



Here's Blur, my Great Wall city, just chugging along growing my cottages. I think for now I'm going to keep it at the cap, and keep chugging out workers/settlers while growing up the cottages. At least that's what feels like the right move to me... Might pause at one point to whip out a (cheap) courthouse, and overflow into a worker/settler.



Here's Contact - not much worth noting here... This city is no exception to the "I need more workers and settlers" thing, but I may sneak out a chariot/spear or something just so I can let it grow real quick.



Worker next here.



The Granary is finally whippable here next turn, so I'll do it then. This city just screams "whip me a lot" so I will probably whip it every 6 turns when the anger wears off.




With the last two cities, you can see why I have such a need for workers right now... Not quite caught up on tile improvements yet for these cities. A mistake on my part, but it's been a problem of competing priorities. The last one doesn't even have trade routes yet! The pig will be pastured next turn, so it's not AS bad as it looks, but it's awfully close.