[spoilers] pindicator goes off the deep end

[Ceiliazul]

Beaver is the one exploring and where he ends his turns are noted in red.

At least, that's how it is until i change it.

Does Beaver stay put on t61? not sure from your pic. water makes micro so much more important, i'll have to try it some time.

[pindicator]

Yeah, Beaver has a turn there where he doesn't have anything to do. I try to avoid that when making the boat micro plans -- with 3 galleys I want to have everyone either picking someone up, dropping someone off, or exploring. But the plan is to pick up the settler from CAA on T60, drop it off on the clam/crab island to the south on T61, and then end T62 SSE of AAA to shuttle the next settler out of AAA to the south. There really aren't any better spots to send a settler to and make it back to AAA by T62, but if something shows up that's not too far away I'll change the micro accordingly.

[pindicator]

Well, I held up the pace a bit as I went to Corvallis to watch Oregon State take on the Stanford Cardinal in some US college football. Dreary, wet, cold day, and the game wasn't much better. We played them tough for about 3 quarters and then Stanford was just too much.

What's that? You want to hear about the other game?

Turn 57

Settled FAP this turn, and gained money. Man, I take back any bad thoughts I had about IMP - every city gets 4 commerce, plus two more if it's working a coastal tile (which is pretty common). So brand new cities are still increasing commerce straight away. I had a workboat right there so the city can start growing right away; sorted out that a trade post is the quicker thing to get the city running.

FAP stands for Federal Arts Project: wikipedia, take over!

So I messed up my micro sheet somehow, and CWA is growing to size 4 a turn earlier than I had written down. Which means that it's settler is due out a turn earlier than I had. So I thought, why not see if the settler in AAA can come out a turn earlier as well? Figured out how to do that, and we're looking at being at 9 cities by turn 64 now. This also cleans up a bit of the galley micro.

Internationally, Rego built the Oracle finally, but it looks like he grabbed Metal Casting with it. I'm not sure MC is the best thing to grab, but I am glad he pulled the trigger before he could get Currency with it. Glad that Sian decided to pick up Priesthood so he could make a run at quick sacrificial altars; I can only guess that spooked Rego into finishing it up.

Also, Gaspadore grew by FIVE population, settling cities 5 & 6. That's a good turn.

[pindicator]

Turn 58

Rego got another classical tech this turn... so I guess he actually teched Mathematics last turn, and this turn the Oracle gave him Currency since that was the tech he switched it up to finding after our agreement. Yep, I just enabled him to have an early 3cpt per city; I feel spiffy.

Here are the demos:



That top GNP? That's rego, I bet, and probably at 0% slider too.

Anyway, I need to keep focusing on food and happiness to get GNP and Crop improved. Tech path is easy enough: Math, Currency, Monotheism & Monarchy. We'll have 10 cities within 10 turns and start the upward growth.

[pindicator]

We've put in two turns already today, and probably will fit in a third before the day is over. I'll have a proper report after the next turn, but i am trying to figure out how best to proceed. I think war is a necessity, but it must be cheaply won otherwise i will continue to fall behind. Do i break my NAP with yuris? I prefer not to break my word... So better would be to initiate the NAP wind-down and leave the opportunity for an attack open later. This leaves me just as vulnerable to a sneak-attack, and i admit i am a bit cowardly towards that possibility.

Rego has whipped his capital; he could have done a settler, or he could have done a hammam. I have to think Hanging Gardens is on his mind: with Org Religion and stone it only costs him 143 hammers to build the hammam & wonder. To compare, it costs me 147 with Ind and stone.

Still, i have a plan to build HG with nine cities on turn 64. I only worry that rego seeing me 3-pop whip my capital on T63 will cause him to rush the wonder to completion if he is going that direction. Next turn i either move workers to forests or move them to improving the land more. An additional 9 population would go a long way towards catching me up, but will i land it? I'm considering delaying the growth of New Deal to size 6 until the turn i whip the aquaduct to help mask the 3 pop whip; indeed, the fur will not be hooked by then so a 6th population will only be an angry one. Edit: This won't mask anything; I'd have to grow after I whip and not before.

Rego finished Moai this latest turn, so i realize i have delayed that too long. FAP seems the best place for the wonder, but it shares a border with yuris and i would rather not place it on a border city if possible. CCC could also build it, but that would mean i need to choose between Heroic Epic and a later Wall Street for that city. Although if i never get a buddhism spread then what matter would Wall Street be.

Sian asked for a NAP until t80 and i agreed outright. So i have non-aggression agreements with everyone except gaspadore, and they are farthest away from me on this map layout. I assume most are still running a thread-bare defense at this point.

I think i will initiate the cooldown with yuris soon. I will have copper connected on turn 68, so if i could build 3 chariots now and 3 axes after. Or if he puts hammers into armies that would suffice and then i could ask for a fixed-duration NAP.

It's funny, nobody has tried to define what specifically a NAP is when asking for them. For all i know they just want to sleep for a while...

[pindicator]

Turns 59, 60, & 61

Everything has gone to plan so far, but I think I may need to adapt shortly. Let's take a look in the east first:



I was able to scout out all of the lands with galley Beaver on its way to CAA. On turn 60 it picked up the settler out of CAA and this turn dropped off the settler on the isle and is set SSE of AAA to pick up it's settler next turn. I had to whip AAA this turn to get the settler out, but I'm taking a gamble here to try to gain ground on Yuris & Rego.

You can see there isn't much land out to the east. My settler is taking one of the best spots visible; another good location is further south to grab the silk & clam. The double clam spot is going to be grabbed by rego shortly; he just whipped LikeAPotatoChip for 2 pop, and has told me he means to claim that spot with a settler. (I did not see the merit in rushing my settler there first to damage our alliance and pay through the nose in maintenance; instead I have asked he leave me the northern corn island.) But I may want to be the one who grabs the clam further east, between the two peaks.

Now the west:



I've uncovered more to the south, and found another seafood by the clam I meant to settle by. I made a small mistake in my micro and had the borders of FAP expanding this turn instead of next, so I am stuck working a coastal tile w/o a trading post. So I took some time to figure out the best way to share resources, which to hook up first with the work boat, and if I should whip the trading post or not, and devised that the work boat will hook up the fish, i will not whip the trading post, and the new city will take the sheep when it first is settled.

Farther west, I've circled a concerning galley. Last turn that galley was on the 'x' tile, and I thought I was safe to claim the northern copper isle. But now the galley is going north, and i can see the workers there have only begun their tasks; I fear he picked up a settler and is heading north. If so, yuris will settle on the hill in 2 turns where I would settle in 3.

Truth be told, losing the western copper may not be the worst thing. Even if it is a superior city site to my southern copper, it would also be hard to defend in a war. In turn, I could put ships SW of CCC that could fork boating two different cities. The only downside is I would need to settle on my own southern copper in short order; that settler would probably come out of FAP.

The main island & the north:



Next turn the settler out of CCC and the worker there board the galley Cloverdale before it sets sail. I've marked my back-up settling plan in case yuris does unload a settler on the western copper next turn. On turn 63 I would first unload the worker north of the corn, and then decide whether to put the settler north of the corn as well, or on the island between the corn and the wheat, picking up both.

This turn saw me whip away 4 population: 2 from AAA and 2 from CCC. The goal is to get cities 7, 8, & 9 down on T64, which is the same turn I hope to land Hanging Gardens. This last turn I moved workers to the three forests surrounding New Deal and set it to maximum growth. The plan is to 3-pop whip an aquaduct on T63 and the one-turn the Hanging Gardens on T64, aided by three chops. Here's the micro from my spreadsheet:



I found a way to grow the city from 3 to 4 the turn I whip it down, so hopefully nobody looks at it and thinks I'm 3-pop whipping an aquaduct. If this works, it will shoot me up to 31 pop by T65. But I had to whip myself down to 15 pop this turn to set the stage. By contrast, the populations of all the other civs are:

Rego (26): 6/5/5/3/3/2/2
Yuris (25): 6/4/4/4/4/2/1
Gaspadore (19): 6/4/4/2/2/1
Sian (16): 6/4/3/2/1
Me: (16): 6/2/2/2/2/2

If it doesn't work, I should still be the first to 9 cities. But in my rush to get them out, not all of them will have a work boat ready to grow onto. Indeed, I still need to determine where the work boats the city I settle next turn are coming from.

Cross your fingers about Hanging Gardens for me.

[pindicator]

Sian's been chatty today. He caught me before I got ready for bed, so I decided you all needed to be privy to our conversations today. There was one earlier today, and then another tonight.

This afternoon:

sianist: hey pin
me: hi sian, what's up?
[COLOR="Lime"]sianist: wanted to check if we should figure out something about a NAP of some kin
kind*[/COLOR]
[COLOR="Plum"]me: sure, i'd be open for a NAP
what wer eyou thinking?[/COLOR]
[COLOR="Lime"]sianist: t80 for starters?
and then review[/COLOR]
[COLOR="Plum"]me: oh yeah, 20 turns is a good start
it's kind of difficult for either of us to attack each other in earnest this early anyway [/COLOR]
sianist: then neither of us can be scared of the other's funny business
[COLOR="Plum"]me: true
you planning some other kind of funny business? my lips are sealed, even that we're even having the NAP[/COLOR]
sianist: currently going on a Settler spam, while chasing CoL
me: i think everybody is doing that
sianist: hoping for the Religion as a bonus
me: beginning to wish i had settled the copper with my 3rd city
sianist: heh
[COLOR="Plum"]me: just to liven things up
oh well, next game maybe[/COLOR]
sianist: given that i can (at least to a certain degree) lean on mass Scientists i hope i'm get one lucking off on CoL
me: well, Rego didn't oracle it so i think you have a shot
sianist: specially to keep it away from Regoarr, which allready have 2 religions
me: do you know what he did oracle?
[COLOR="Lime"]sianist: not certain to be honest other than he didn't nail that
... not that strong C&D'er
and haven't really talked with him[/COLOR]
[COLOR="Lime"]me: or theology; he could have gotten that but didn't either
maybe mc?
but that seems like it isn't so hot for him since i can't see any metal happiness[/COLOR]
sianist: mc or eying up something like Currency mayhaps?
me: you know, top gnp is pretty high up there
sianist: Currency is strong on this map
me: i bet it was currency
sianist: sounds likely ...
me: run away rego
sianist: if he manages to nail CoL before anyone else (gobbling up a 3'd religion) then i believe he becomes the target of a pile
me: yeah, yuris has already mentioned concern about him to me as well[/COLOR]
[COLOR="Lime"]sianist: i believe horses would be strongest since as far as i can see (everyone but Yuri) i'm the only one having Copper (or Iron) as of yet
horses would be the easiest at least[/COLOR]
[COLOR="Plum"]me: yeah
i'm planning on getting my copper going soon
since my neighbors didn't prioritize it i figured i didn't need to[/COLOR]
sianist: going to plant a couple of cities and then reevaluate
me: yeah, me too
[COLOR="Lime"]sianist: got 2-3 good cities to go as of my knowlegde (only have 2 on main island)
anyways ... getting around finishing the save or should i go mix up something to eat first?[/COLOR]
[COLOR="Plum"]me: i'll have it to you in about 5 - 10 min
i always get concerned i'm going to mess up my plans, so i try to take my time[/COLOR]
sianist: then i have time ... going to 'nomom' a bit
me: lol, you do

And just now:

sianist: *yawns ... morning
[COLOR="Plum"]me: morning
or good evening, if you ever find yourself on the west coast of the US[/COLOR]
sianist: in europe
me: spent most of my summer in spain this year
sianist: i'm i very wrong if i'm guessing your sitting behind Rego?
me: on the map? yeah, from you I am past rego in the line of islands
[COLOR="Lime"]sianist: what is your nap with him?
btw ... i've certain he oracled currency ... i'm seeing his gold production[/COLOR]
me: it's got a non-disclose clause on it, sadly
sianist: i believe he might be looking like a runaway so after CoL i'm looking at shaping up something to knock him down a pin
[COLOR="Plum"]me: i'd be all for him getting knocked down a few
nice thing about torroidal maps is nobody is too far away[/COLOR]
sianist: his GNP is 100something when researching and 84 (best guess) when running 0% research
me: i wonder which way he is going next
[COLOR="Lime"]sianist: he is getting gold so he can run 100% so ...
no other reason to go 0% this turn really
i'm the only one who would have been able to get away with that for other reasons, IF i was spirituel[/COLOR]
[COLOR="Plum"]me: he mentioned wanting to get feudalism to me earlier in the game
that or metal casting would make him difficult to attack[/COLOR]
[COLOR="Lime"]sianist: thats enough for me ... if your in i'm planing a attack on t80
just to knock him down a pin or three[/COLOR]
me: i really wish i could help out then
sianist: you can help by keeping num ...
me: it's as if this conversation never happened
sianist: nice that we understand each other
[COLOR="Plum"]me:
i am concerned about him, so i may... fudge... the spirit of our NAP if I get the chance
but i didn't say that[/COLOR]
[COLOR="Lime"]sianist: oh well ... packing up ... have to get the bus in 15 minutes and still haveto get dressed
say what? :D[/COLOR]
me: i think we understand each other very well :D
[COLOR="Lime"]sianist: if all goes as planed i'm landing Confusism t64
want to in the spirit of argeement enlarge our NAP to t100?[/COLOR]
[COLOR="Plum"]me: cool
for confu
so the NAP would be for 38 turns?[/COLOR]
sianist: instead ofthe 18 it is now
[COLOR="Plum"]me: yeah
let's do that[/COLOR]
sianist: if even more lucky its landing in BC which is 3 tiles from Rego ...
me: he got that on his border city with me: hinduism culture stole my fish tile
[COLOR="Lime"]sianist: given that its semirandom he can't blame me, even through it is possible to manipulate to a certain degree
i'm trying to manipulate my cities so its that that's most likely to end up with it[/COLOR]
[COLOR="Plum"]me: hope it does
had any luck getting other civs on board?[/COLOR]
[COLOR="Lime"]sianist: only just started looking around and since you was the only one online and not away then ...
anyways ... gotta run[/COLOR]
[COLOR="Plum"]me: cool, have a good day
and good luck[/COLOR]

Here's the summary version:

• NAP with Sian until T100
  
• We speculate what Rego took with the Oracle; eventually Sian comes to the right answer and guesses that Rego took Currency, but I did guide him to that answer
  
• I fan the talk of Rego being a runaway
  
• Sian's going to settle 2-3 more cities then reevaluate; that would put him up to 7 or 8 cities.
  
• Sian comes back later and tells me he wants to attack rego on T80. I'm the first he's spoken with.
  
• I tell him I can't participate, but I can keep quiet about it.
  
• He asks me what my NAP is with rego and I lie, telling him it has a non-disclosure clause on it.
  
• Sian hopes to grab Confucianism on T64.
  

Best-case scenario: Sian takes a dent out of Rego with no civ taking the other over. Sian can grab a few cities, that would be fine; but we don't want Rego getting any stronger out of this.

Rego is undoubtably going to ask for him from me when he is attacked. I need to find a way to turn him down, at least at first. I also need to make sure not to trade him any nav-galleys; I'm sure when other civs saw Nav-galleys flying the ottoman flag they will put two and two together. One idea: be in a war prior to T80, perhaps even ask rego if he can spare any troops. That would mean I need to get rid of my NAP with yuris so I have that option. That also means I need to settle a copper source ASAP.

Something to mull over while I sleep...

[pindicator]

New message from Yuris:

[COLOR="Orange"]Hey Pindicator,

When you open the game, you will see that I have a Settler next to the
copper source to your west. While I think and can argue that I'm
perfectly entitled to this spot, I don't want you to feel that I
abused our NAP and pink-dotted you. So if you strongly object to this
city, just let me know, and hopefully we will be able to work out a
solution satisfactory to both of us

Best regards
Trainee captain yuris125[/COLOR]

Two flippin' turns. That's becoming a recurring theme in this game: being two turns too slow.

[T-hawk]

If it doesn't work, I should still be the first to 9 cities. But in my rush to get them out, not all of them will have a work boat ready to grow onto.

One answer is to whip the free citizen from the Hanging Gardens into that work boat.

[pindicator]

One answer is to whip the free citizen from the Hanging Gardens into that work boat.

Yes, that's probably what it will come to. I'd rather whip away a trading post and have a work boat ready, but I'm not going to overly-lament that detail if I can land the wonder. If I don't land the wonder.... perhaps CAA builds a work boat and I switch the new city to a trading post.