(September 10th, 2020, 15:22)Rusten Wrote: We probably have a lot of uncontested land down south.
Settling green and orange and letting Cairo settle white isn't horrible, but it's very meek.
the timeline in my head is:
we settle blue, he settles his backlines (copper)
we settle red, because with IMP we're faster (although have to acknowledge that we lost to turns on the pasture)
he can decide whether he wants white or something further away, like NW
Or you did you mean my quesiton on whether the diplomatic fallout of settling red makes it worth it? I'm increasingly on board with you the more I think about it. I would be fine to cede him some land if it appeased him and got us a secure border, but the second part of that sentence doesn't hold. Without red to close the chain, he can just straight up walk upon us and cut off green or orange from the cap at will. So with that olive branch we might even actually invite his attack.
The cow is closer to our capital than his, he has the rice. Our half of the land is far superior, good for us.
Now let's not die to a warrior or Holkan in the next few turns (still putting EP in Elkad, graphs are 2t away) and then not to an AGGression in the couple dozen turns afterwards (but when has Cairo ever...?)
here's the first version of the sandbox, at the current turn. It doesn't include all the tiles we uncovered to the N/NW yet, I'll add those at a later point.
If you see anything off with it please tell.
Beaker count is in accordance with the spread sheet so far (haven't checked the online game tbh, but will)
In practice we only lose one turn on the late pasture, because we're gaining 3 food even working unimproved tiles, but yes, it's not ideal.
Timeline looks alright, I'll have a look at the sandbox before the end of the week to confirm.
Agree with your point on closing the chain. Having that red spot is such a big help -- it's why I'm pushing hard for it. If we have to invest into some extra military early on to hold it and scare him off then that's a price I'm willing to pay. All our northern cities will be on hills and they are closer to us than him.
1, 2, 3, 4 are the possible white dots I see. I hope for 1, and the horse makes it more appealing, but Cairo may bout know that yet by the time he settles his third city, assuming a seafood/grain start
The western horse makes me think that we could see another border after uncovering just one more column of food tiles. It would be strange for it to be Elkad, who came from the north, had met Cairo pretty early (about t5, we could look out up on the first espionage screen I posted), and was moving south, although it is possible that that was part of his circle
That western horse is in the second ring of our now projected 4th city
The incomplete uncovering of the southern coast now comes back to bite. I still think the decision was correct, but maybe I should have circled back after the decision for hunting was made? We have not decided yet on whether there will be a second scout.
Horse in that area makes copper at blue dot (deer) less likely. Commodore wouldn't just place it in that desert, right? 2NW of capital would also be mean.
Having now played through the opening in the sandbox I commend you on the casual 1 turn into worker in order to complete it in time to whip the settler ASAP. Very cute and seems the best play.
Only thing that I could see change is the worker actions after the first mine -- we might want a 2nd mine (or roads) over the chop. But that's more than 10 turns from now so we can just chill.
I played t16, but nothing new to show. Cairo has a banana and we can look into his cap next turnand hope he doesn't have a warrior waiting for us (who still would have to attack the scout onto a foested hill and over a river. So picture next turn.
He has found our borders and start putting EP into us, I am also puttin 2 EP per turn into him, but I want Elkads graphs first, and keep them
(September 10th, 2020, 16:39)Rusten Wrote: In practice we only lose one turn on the late pasture, because we're gaining 3 food even working unimproved tiles, but yes, it's not ideal.
I'm curious how that logic works? In my book, we're losing 6 food from not working the pig pasture for 2 turns, then also some for not working the pig pasture earlier, then 4 hammers for delaying the mine. Maybe more if we could've grown earlier, and we lose 1 worker turn permanently (1 is recovered for prebuilding the road). Well, cataphracts will be worth all that, if we get there.
(September 11th, 2020, 14:38)Rusten Wrote: Having now played through the opening in the sandbox I commend you on the casual 1 turn into worker in order to complete it in time to whip the settler ASAP. Very cute and seems the best play.
glad you like it.
(September 11th, 2020, 14:38)Rusten Wrote: Only thing that I could see change is the worker actions after the first mine -- we might want a 2nd mine (or roads) over the chop. But that's more than 10 turns from now so we can just chill.
yes, that was actually a leftover from when we were going to chop the settler out before slavery (i.e. before the Justinian pick).
I took it as motivation to bring the spreadsheet to post-second city founding with a scenario where we found blue dot, then aim for red, but first grow back to size 4, which only happens eot 39 and seems awfully slow - we then have yet to get the next settler (or the third worker first more likely), but at least have 2 forests preroaded, and can have both prechopped or 4 turns into the FP farm (former seems clearly better). Also blue dot is at size 2 eot 38.
Second worker meanwhile roads to blue dot and then camps the deer and hopefully builds a copper mine.
I refrain from the second mine, because blue dot gives the sheep back anyways, and we will not stay on size 4 for long .
I also don't finish a chop before the cap is back at size 4, so as not to halt growth to collect the hammers for a worker or settler.
All in all that seems very slow, but there is some unrealized potential with the prechopped forests and the roads towards red dot.
But I should look how it works with just growing to size 3, or even chopping out a worker at size 2?
Spreadsheet doesn't account yet for gold costs, so research is overstated. Want to have a look at it?
keep investigating the cap, or circle back and find someone in the west? I prefer the latter
I first thought that this looks like straight hunting -> BW , but why would he take a turn longer? He has Mysticism as well... - wait, seems like he moved on t0 ! Very strange, as usually everybody gets their PH, and here Commodore even spiked that with 2 commerce, at least for Cairo and us.
so yeah, Hunting->BW looks likely, we'll see it soon enough. That is, if we don't lose graphs, because I'm splitting EP now 1/3 between him and Cairo, who is putting 4 per turn into us.
But I don't think it's likely a Holkan would go after us (but he is spending EP on us now, so...)
Also, why did our GNP make that -2 -> +1dip? The -2 is from losing the prereq bonus on AH of course, but why the +1 when we didn't change tiles the whole time? As a lovely surprise at least, our beakers in mining are 2 more than what the spreadsheet says
Quote:Also, why did our GNP make that -2 -> +1dip?
Could it be the KTB (known tech bonus)? In RtR there's a 0% modifier for ancient techs, but I don't think that's the case for vanilla (and thus CtH). But I don't remember the numbers anymore -- need to look it up again. Both Maya and England start with mining.
Any chance this speeds up BW by a turn? They might get to BW before us too. How close were we before?
Haven't had a chance to read the rest, but I'll check in again tomorrow.
glad you like it.
, but why would he take a turn longer? He has Mysticism as well... - wait, seems like he moved on t0 ! Very strange, as usually everybody gets their PH, and here Commodore even spiked that with 2 commerce, at least for Cairo and us.
