[NO 73 PLAYERS] Lurkers Monitoring Variance

[Tarkeel]

And nope, he actually wants to attack Yuris.

I also would have gone the route of protect his coast so he can focus on hurting main rival Scooter. Bonus parking some triremes on his eastern coast not only protects Yuris but also in the right spots blocks Scooter from attacking him until Galleons.

Not really, there's a lot of coastal connections from the Lost Continent. He'd have to choke at the islands that Scooter has already settled.

[Mjmd]

He would have to sit in two chokes vs 1, but seems like that would be most efficient military builds rather than trying to garrison every coastal city vs berserkers.

[Tarkeel]

He would have to sit in two chokes vs 1, but seems like that would be most efficient military builds rather than trying to garrison every coastal city vs berserkers.

Just a reminder of how the map looks:

There's a lot of connections from the south and no good way to blockade it.

[Mjmd]

I mean SE of Yuris is the obvious as it also protects Yuris. Ya technically Scooter can sail all the way around west, but its a much longer trip. Drop off a scout to keep an eye on that coast, but its unlikely. CURRENTLY can block between his continent and that island. SURE Scooter can technically go WAY east, but again also unlikely. Its going to get more awkward as he expands south though. Might have to go with again some forward scouts. Still seems better than huddling up in your cities and hoping your nets don't get pillaged or Scooter doesn't just bring enough units.

[T-hawk]

There is a "northwest passage" above Cairo's land, and it leads right to Oxy's capital. Wonder if Scooter might someday get a boat through that way and surprise him. Or at least Oxy should assign a couple boats to scouting/defending from that direction.

[Mjmd]

1) Quick run to Theology (4ish turns) to unlock Theocracy. This might come in serious handy both with land and sea units. Positive side effect of opening up AP. This is my slight lean at the moment.
2) Run to Music for Artist. This could be used for a Golden Age or to culturally control this continent to speed up the land war. This has the positive side effect of opening up a bunch of useful world/national wonders.
3) Straight to Optics for Caravels. I already have Machinery, so I could get Caravels online much faster than Oxy and have a naval edge over him. Would outdate his Triremes, and he has quite a few of those at this stage.
4) Tech Engineering. Pricy tech, but +1 movement would be helpful, Pikes would be helpful, and then Castles would be quite useful too.

Of these I like 3 or 4. I agree with Scooter he shouldn't have pushed militarily sooner, but now is the time and both of those help with that. I just don't like giving Oxy time, so like finishing off Yuris so he can focus on Oxy next. Honestly its probably just #3 and then beeline Astronomy. Sure all the econ options are fun and stuff, but its not like there is anyone to out econ but Oxy.

[Mousey]

Theology is cheap enough that 1) -> 3) seems like the best pick to me. 3) is the most valuable militarily but is primarily for fighting Oxy so can wait til after Theology without missing out on much while he fights Yuris. And the extra Theology XP will make those caravels all the nastier.

4) is nice but the price is painful and it wouldn't provide much benefit beyond speeding up a pretty one sided war. It's a "nice to have" as opposed to the more long term advantage from the others.

[Tarkeel]

I personally favor #1 Theology as well; Scooter's main issue right now is non-capital production, and AP will solve that nicely. Theo will also allow him to build 5(!) move galleys and triremes, or 6 move caravels (w/Optics). Hence I also think #3 Optics afterwards to contain Oxy on his continent; 6 move caravels with extra vision can run a nasty blockade.

Engineering would mainly be for the pikes to trade more favorably against phracts; road movement isn't as important when he has even faster boats to strike from and he can't spare the hammers for castles anytime soon.

[Qgqqqqq]

I think its a mistake to give Oxy peace. Yes, dealing with his triremes makes it more difficult. But Scooter has way more military, and his best-ever military superiority (mobility advantages will continue, but nothing's quite as dramatic as x2 movement). He's already falling behind economically. Giving Oxy time to expand, land Kremlin, and potentially tech up to Optics as well, with no threat, poses a real risk. Scooter already has 1 trireme - how many more would he need to feel safe?

Sure, it's tough to say its a mistake to exit a two-front war. But I think this benefits Oxy far more. And Scooter's window is passing. (Not that +2 movement will ever be irrelevant.)

[T-hawk]

Stupid question since I'm rusty on Civ 4 - how exactly does the AP give production? It's +2 hammers for buildings of that religion, right? Scooter hasn't built any yet, last I remember. 400 hammers for the wonder (with no doubler) and even 30 for a Spi temple still takes quite a while to pay back. Scooter can't afford wonders now - he's already ignored Mausoleum for quite a while, and already chopped everything.

Yuris just posted that he traded 1 phract for 3 elephants - if that's the kind of odds Scooter is going to keep facing, then yeah he's going to need Theocracy above all else, so that's still his right tech even without the AP.

I think the Oxy-Scooter peace is correct for both of them. Scooter definitely wants it while he's hands-full with Yuris. Oxy wants it too because he doesn't know quite how deep Scooter is in versus Yuris. The zerk raids against Oxy are coming eventually; Oxy knows he needs time to prepare.