PBEM #1 - Saladin [Spoilers]

[athlete4life10]

So my general plan is to just raise an army as quickly as I can and attack. I can't wait long as Dreylin will simply have the tech in place to defend.

[athlete4life10]

Played 710AD. Dreylin lost 2 spies but was successful on the 2nd attempt at getting engineering though it did cost him a lot to get it. Noticed a Janissary in Bursa. Still one more turn before I can revolt civics again.

[athlete4life10]

e-mail to Dreylin

Hey Andy,

While still not a nice thing to do I suppose a) stealing a tech I can't trade you anyway and b) letting me know before I'm kind of blind sided (as I would be expecting something now...) is better (for me) than the other options available to you. I've played my turn and passed it on to MH, but at this point I'm really undecided about how I want to proceed. While MH, Soooo and I have been tight, my NAP is close to ending with MH and no negotiations are taking place to renew. From my perspective it doesn't look like he's really interested in renewing. With his spiking power I have to start preparing for something...

Having you spy bomb me has me further worried as not only does it allow tech benefits but so many other things as well. My inability to see your graphs and you have almost clairvoyance into my entire civ now seems woefully unfair :-(. Not that I knew espionage played a role in seeing graphs until half way through this game but that's another point altogether. You seem more than willing to have the NAP cancelled and by all rights I believe they should be however I have not been able to decide if that puts me in a better position as a civ or not.

So where does that leave us? At this point I'm really on the fence with a lot of things (not just our relationship). My first instict when seeing the spybomb was to curse and swear and attack but alas I can not magically hit the end turn button several times over and having the time to think there might be a better way to handle this...I just have yet to find it. I do know in the near (not immediate, but near) future I'll be interested in Music. I see you got gunpowder through Ruff (probably a few turns ago, I don't pay that close atttention to it) and have a Janissery in Bursa. Gunpowder might be fun to have as well. Anyways I'm rambling without saying much.

What thoughts do you have with where you want to proceed both with our civ's relationship and the game itself? Earlier you had mentioned wanting to play a mostly peaceful game but if MH does choose to go against me (I'm assuming you'd be his only other option as a target and last I saw you were still significantly ahead on power) would you care to participate (even if it's just by proxy). I'm not unreasonable to continuing a relationship but just to reiterate at this point I am still uncertain as to where I stand.

Hope you enjoyed the rambling,

Taylor

[athlete4life10]

e-mail to MH

Hey MH,

Here's what I was initially going to attempt to discuss with you:

a) I was going to use your spiking power and a false pretense that our NAP was going to end shortly with you being unwilling to negotiate a new one or renewal and let Dreylin think you might be getting ready to declare war on me.

b) I was hoping he would be prepared to participate via proxy by gifting me some units (hopefully seige or Janissaries) with the promise of some type of compensation (tech/spoils of war/something).

c) I would gift you a warrior I have performing MP duty and declare war on me. I would kill that warrior and 1 of your weaker units (I'm hoping you have a warrior or an archer or something) so my HA could get to 10xp for the Heroic Epic. We might continue the phony war for a few turns, atleast until Dreylin has gifted me the units.

d) Then we would make peace and declare on Dreylin together, or you gift units to me or participate in the war however you were planning on doing so.

e) I was going to use the pretense that Soooo demanded I close borders with Dreylin (upon being able to convert to Mercantilism) as he and Ruff alienated yourself with the AP vote so hopefully that wouldn't allow to much suspicion durign the 10 turn cooling period for him to prepare too much of a defence.

Timeframes and what not for all these events would have needed to be sorted out but I believe would have been doable if not for the recent spybomb. I still may be able to salvage this plan but before I do if you could provide any comments on it (if you think it's got any hope whatsoever etc...)

From this point I want to hurry the war on Dreylin but I'm still probably 10 turns away from having a decent stack unless I completely whip my civ...Any thoughts on how you want to proceed with the upcoming war?

Athlete

[athlete4life10]

e-mail from Soooo to the 3some

don't think I will be going to war with Ruff right now. I'm no longer no.1 in power as of this turn so that must mean Ruff has creeped ahead of me. Our lands are a killing ground - no way of a sneak attack so whoever invades will probably lose their stack. The best I can do is keep Ruff honest - keep him building troops (and not buildings) and stop him reinforcing Dreylin.

I suppose I could try to take over the sea and do a naval invasion of Dreylin, but that would need more troops, more ships and I would have to cancel the NAP with Dreylin (not such a suprise naval invasion ).

Dreylin and Ruff stealing techs is not that terrible. Because of no tech brokering, they still have to research what the other one steals. And since they are trading freely with each other, they don't get any more value than if they had just researched the two techs and traded them with each other.

Athlete, I assume you are going to use the economics GM for a trade mission to mh's capital? I wouldn't send him to me because he could be at risk from a sneak attack. If you get the cash from that it would give a nice boost to making a run for rifles. Rifles + nationalism = good times .

and my response

I haven't quite figured that one out yet. The original plan was to go to Greece and cash him in to upgrade troops and attack Dreylin. That was the quickest way for me to get a good stack. That being said I know it's not the most effecient use of gold...So maybe it will be better to proceed to rifling then simply draft units and go from there.

Keeping Ruff honest is fine and dandy but that means your building troops (and not buildings) as well...At some point don't we just have to go for it?

[athlete4life10]

and a reply from Soooo

Well, when "going for it" means "losing your army", then no

I don't mind building troops - gotta do it anyway for defence. I have very specialised cities, so my troop-building ones wouldn't be building economic buildings anyway. My commerce cities are still on commerce buildings. I'm going to presume that Ruff's cities aren't so specialised so building troops would hurt him more than me.

I reckon sending him to Aachen will be just as profitable as sending him to my capital and quicker, less risky.

[athlete4life10]

OK so played 770 ad turn. will attempt to have a more grandiose update done later tonight. Switched to slavery and pacifism this turn and once 6 turns pass my GS will be born so will go to theocracy at that point. Mecca and Damascus are on strict military duty. Next turn I should receive a 10XP unit from MH so one will pause to build the HE (haven't decided which one yet) apart from that I shall update furhter later tonight (hopefully).

[athlete4life10]

I know I know but I don'thave time for a full update. HE under way in Damascus 7 turns but I have a chop coming. 1st CA out the door with plenty more cats and CA's to come. slaved a worker in baghdad. Getting things tiles worked/chopped asap. This woudl have been perfect to...T100 @ 800AD. Oh well...I'll try to get a good update this week.

[athlete4life10]

e-mail to dreylin:

Hey Andy,

I have a few moments now and this is taking priority over updating my thread so feel flattered! OK so I figure I'd better be completely open about everything as I feel that will help secure what I'm looking for (possibly just reassurances, possibly more) better than trying to beat around the bush.

MH and Soooo are TIGHT. This probably comes as no shocker. I have been pretty much aligned with them since the divide, again no shocker. Still I've never felt I've shut the door so to speak. So ya we agreed to trade tech to a certain point which you obviously saw, and has effectively locked you out of the bottom half of the tree. OK so I get why you spy bombed me, however, with an NAP in place with me a spy bomb is clearly an act of aggression, and you did not have one with MH who is basically an equalized target when compared to me.

In terms of my relationship with MH, I've chosen to spread buddhism as I don't believe he has the shrine yet, and if he gets it, I'm helping a "weaker" civ, not one of the big 3. Also if it shouldon whether he plans to attack me (or possibly you) or if these troops he's building are for defense considering he'll have a 2 front border with 0 NAP's. come to it, that would be the easiest holy city for me to obtain :-). In terms of tech my responsibilities end at Economics with MH (and Soooo). My NAP with MH comes to a halt on turn 110 with no renewal at this point and by the sounds of things not one to come. While MH and I are toe to toe in power right now he still does owe me tech so I'm uncertain as to what will happen.

In terms of my relationship with Soooo we are friendly. No NAP and have shared tech as part of the 3some but apart from that I might as well be aiding either you or Ruff as I've no stronger connection than that with Soooo.

I hope that gives you a better idea of where I am positioned. If you have any questions let me know and I shall answer to the best of my ability.

Now in terms of tech I can not yet trade you Feudalism as it would only cause aggravation and further give MH a reason to declare on me sooner than later. However once all our current arrangements run out I see it as fair game. That being said with you positioned the way you are I can't really fault you for using the benefits of spy bombing me by stealing tech. That's not exactly permission to go ahead and steal Feudalism but it only takes me 1 turn of research for music so maybe if you stole Feudalism you could gift me music in exchange? I'm not sure of the hammer cost of a spy but Music + cost of spy = Feudalism is basically what I'm offering (I think that's worded properly). This is of course with agreeing to remain in an NAP.

Regarding the NAP I wish to renegotiate it now when I've got some time to think through my thoughts (I've been terribly busy lately and it's made me quite scatter brained...sorry :-) ). Here's what I would like: extend our current NAP to T125 with no auto renewal and no cooldown at this point. However I want to coordinate with you quite closely from now until that point our communications and possibly mutual military struggles in the near future. I do believe I've no wish to not be in an NAP with you but I don't want to be stuck in one with anybody for a long period of time. Until T125 is long enough @ quick speed. I believe the offer regarding the NAP is more than fair considering you made a very aggressive move against me while holding a Non-AGGRESSION Pact with me.

Now onto military and the situation at hand. Can you shed some light on how you see you and I cooperating? Would you participate in the war and we'd split the spoils? First come first serve? Would you gift units for some sort of trade (money/tech/spoils of war)? If something like that happened how can we make it work best for the both of us? I would ideally like to see pariticipation by proxy and you provide seige units (I believe your not far from cannons if you went that route). However at this point it's not a reality and might be totally avoided still so and I have no idea how you would like to be compensated in return for something like that. As well what if I were to declare on MH? Would you still cooperate with me? Do you only want to help in a defensive battle? I'm not looking for any commitments or anything like that nature just thoughts for now as I've shared with you.

A lot to read and a lot of questions. Take your time (as I certainly do). I hope this isn't too much for one e-mail :-). I look forward to your response.

Taylor

So you'll notice some direct lies in there (My NAP with MH ends at T150) but that's what Dreylin gets for spy bombing me...hopefully I can play him a bit but you know what they say about the best laid plans...I plan on sending this to MH and Soooo to keep them in the loop but I gotta go...

[athlete4life10]

Here's an update of T104 @ 880 AD. With MH gone this week nows the best time to do it rather than waiting till the game gets going again as I'm sure I'll find an excuse to not update later.

First an overview of Arabian lands as best as I could get:

Next an overview of Arabian and HRE lands:

Next an overview of the rest of the world:

Mecca:

As I've stolen Dreylin's stone for the immediate future with Damascus's strong culture I'm going to try and land a wonder in here or 2.
Medina:

Just birthed a GS and will get an academy. What a great city this is :-).
Damascus:

My military powerhouse. Will probably get westpoint as well.
Baghad:

Zapotec:

This will get double whipped next turn with the overflow going into a Madrassa or a courthouse. I'm pretty sure a Madrassa to get the culture going and it should become a reasonable research city.
Najrah:

Since I'm replaying this turn from before I'm pretty sure I whipped this forge for 3 pop but I can't remmeber. When I get the new turn back I'll know...
Kufah:

Right now it's got a Madrassa but again I think I put in a courthouse in the real game.
Recent Log activity:

T104 Demographics:

T104 GNP Graph: