[SPOILER] Waterbat spends '104 Days of Summer Vacation'

[waterbat]

if it was indeed catwalk who settled, he would *not* have gotten 1000 points for doing so.

So there is 5000 soldier points unaccounted for and Azza and TAD teched (azza 4 turns, TAD 6)

Tad researched mediatation (forgot to check game log). Azza must have done archery? nah that's 6000 all its own. You know - it seems like he is going the oracle route - although I am not too familiar with the specifics - I am going to put him on meditation 1 turn behind TAD and maybe he also built an archer or someone built a barracks. Whatever the case, catwalk probably isnt #1 in soliders - that 1000 increase couldnt have been him.

[waterbat]

t27:

Did not hear back from superjm, but i did see the following upon logging in:



well, i guess that is inviting me in? but why put 1 turn into the mine and not finish it? Did he get panic'd by an approaching enemy from the north?

A phony war for the purposes of transit has been declared.


Hey a worker ... How to tell him i don't intend harm to it?

I sent this:

Greetings Willem of China!


In-game proposals:
none


Diplomatic Extensions:

NAP 13 turns to turn 40
Close borders with Superjm on turn 30

Also of note this turn:


I met Azza!

Going to figure out what to send him. i just don't what a bunch of WCs on top of me.

Ferb has been founded!




Also with the founding of this city - it is very apparent that I f'd up big time.

That plains flood plain in my sandbox? doesnt exist anymore (it was supposed to be desert) so i didnt give up as much by moving to the stone.

No, that's not the big time F up. How about this:

My sandbox is a 1-way wrap. The game map is a 2-axis map. @$#%&*^@#*$&! maintenance nearly doubled - instead of 2.7 for that new city, its 4.something. This definitely will delay both thewheel by a turn and pottery by who knows how much.

I guess the sandbox isn't completely useless - i could set the slider and just accumulate extra gold in the sandbox.

This really sucks because I just whipped the fast worker (at 19/40 ) to go into a quick second settler. I also moved the worker to put 1 of the chops into the settler to get him even 1 turn faster. That city will be closer, but i can't really afford another 3gpt hit when i was expecting 1gpt.

Hmmm... I have figured out the map and was thinking my exploring workboat is going to be useless for meeting another civ - so I can use him to get the clams in that second city. Also I am slowly building a workboat for clams in the stone city - that will help as well since the clams both will give 2gpt.

Here's the map concept. I assume that the "unknown" section wraps around the bottom of the map on a downward-right slant (SE)- so that way we could meet up with 4 of our 5 neighbors via land bridges. Because of this, I'm going to send my warrior over by azza into that unknown region and try to meet with the upper left civ. This is the only civ to which I do not have a direct link. SS = silver site, GS = gold/stone, H = horse, Cu = copper.



oh that's cool - my warrior up by superjm i will go East and then North and try to reach back into my own lands.

Also - i figured out where i want my next 9 cities There is wheat +fish across the bay from the stone city. that would make 2 cities near the siliver site ideal.

1 corn sharing city
2 cities on the land-bridge west (silver site)
2 cities by my horse/wheat in the east - i dont want to extend too far
2 cities on the mirror line up in the flood plain area to superjm
2 cities fill in between SS and my cap (copper-crabs and pig-crabs)

That doesnt leave any in the unknown area - but I'm sure ill fall in love with some spots down there

Demos:



These are from the beginning of turn (before founding and whipping, but AFTER meeting azza) For a small time after the founding of Ferb, we took the population lead. Then we whipped the shit out of our #1 city's citizens.

im concerned about my gnp. ive been wasting a few worker turns, so i can understand being behind, but nearly 50% behind?

we gained 1 GNP by meeting azza due to the fact that he has wheel. But i think that also means superjm has wheel - because we shouldnt gain a whole beaker if he doesnt. Oh of course he has wheel - he was building a road.

land went up 4 squares last turn (catwalk settling) and 5 squares this turn (xenon settling).

not sure where they settled - 4 seems low though!
In fact - only 3 reasonable sites seem to gain just 4 tiles! I think catwalk settled one of these (the original corn-sharing hill i was eyeing up - the corn city to the southeast - or the pig city)



I think this is good for us. super defensive - lots of overlap and no flood plains

xenon could have settled anywhere - lots of options for 5-tile cities.

population went up 16000 - makes sense - superjm grew his cap to size 3, xenon settled a new city. TAD is now last in pop with 21000 (size 3 cap)

soldiers went up 3000, but no tech and pop counts should have caused it. Someone built an archer?? i adjusted techs so no one has archery - oh well.

[waterbat]

received from superjm:

Is there a need to propose closing borders when our borders aren't even open in the first place?

Willem of China accepts your Non-Aggression Pact, valid until Turn 40. I presume this means a declaration of peace next turn?

sent following:

superjm,

I am trying very much to stick to the rules, so that diplomatically, we are playing the same game as other players.
I dont think this is possible though - i think that maybe we should have defined some email templates for diplo so we know exactly what we can write and cannot write. I like the idea of limited diplo for the sake of time though -i waste enough time in a day already.

Given we only have 5 choices of diplo (in addition to the AI):
nap
declare war on X on turn Y
close borders to X on turn Y
border agreement (accompanying screenshot)
turn qualifiers (gifts and trades)

I may have been trying to say something else - because obviously asking you to close borders with yourself seems silly I won't say more, but will take your acceptance as permission to do what i wanted to do.

You should have seen the border agreement screenshot i was going to send you - it was borderline ridiculous. (pun unintentional)


Thank you sir,
waterbat

[waterbat]

question for the math oriented out there:

this goes back a few turns to 23.

right before meeting superjm, my GNP was 24.
I was researching bronze working.

That made sense to me:

GNP = RESEARCH + CULTURE + ESPIONAGE - EXPENSES

RESEARCH = int ( int ((BEAKERS+1) * KnownTechBonus) * PrereqModifier )

PrereqModifer = 1+(0.2*mandatory tech?)+(0.2*optional techs)
KnownTechBonus = 1+ 0.30 * CivsThatKnow / TotalCivs (rounded to 2 decimals)

so BEAKERS = 13, 0 civs know the tech. its bronzworking, so it has 1 mand requirement.

easy to see that RESEARCH = int( int((13+1)*1) * 1.2) = int (14 * 1.2) = int 16.8 = 16

so 16+4+4-0 = 24

ok correct!

But as soon as I met superjm, my GNP went to 25.

He is the only civ I have met, i KNOW he has bronzeworking as he's mining the copper spot.

Why did my GNP go up? As mentioned before, unless I am making 19 bpt on the slider, the int( (BEAKERS+1)*KnownTechModifer ) should always round back down to BEAKERS+1 as knowntechmodifer for 1 civ is 0.05 (1*0.30/6).

[waterbat]

incidentally, if I take out the inner int() function that rounds down the value of 14*0.5 = 14.7 to 14, then i do get 25 as the GNP. This disagrees with the formulas I found which clearly indicate that i should take the integer portion (floor function) at each step.

also the formula was correct with or without the inner int function when researching wheel a few turns later.

i had gnp of 22 and after meeting azza, it popped to 23 as the formulas predicted.

[waterbat]

t28: I guess i found what spooked superjm into stopping the mining efforts:



We met TheArchDuke!
I'll still send my warrior that way because TAD may have approached from the south.

i decided to continue to chop out the settler, but i need to get roads and my gold mine up asap.

demos:


Catwalk grew his new city to size 2 (+5000 pop)
TAD grew his capitol to size 4 (+27000 pop)

wow! TAD's capitol has already generated 232 culture?? that's an average of 8.3cpt ?? i understand the holy city (double holy city?) and everything - but wow. next turn we will see what he has per turn.

The only tech we were able to confirm with research bonus was that he had meditation. It was inconclusive on hunting and polytheism, but we know he has poly. The rest he doesn't have

[waterbat]

wowowow... big jump in score for Archduke - have to check, but its probably the land points he gained from jumping out to the culture lead first.

In fact - he is generating 14cpt in his capitol and just founded his first city this turn.

14 culture per turn??!! Can someone explain to me the math of this?

palace + 2, free creative +2, old monument +2, and.... i can still build stonehenge, so its not +8 from that

anyway - big event this turn:


Catwalk appears to be my neighbor.
If I hadn't forgotten to revolt, i wouldnt have seen him coming.

I am not going to panic - but an upgraded warrior on my doorstep is not comforting. I know that catwalk doesnt have many of them - he has at max 4 out at the moment. but i'd be hard pressed to do anything about even a single one.

I switched Ferb over to a warrior instead of workboat and also will build warrior instead of workboat in the capitol.

Demos:

[waterbat]

oh didn't comment last turn on the demos:

TAD's land score bump isn't due until t33! so something is up.

score:
TAD increased 24 ?! 95->119
Azza increased 111->115 (founded a city, Binomial)
Catwalk 99->105 teched something - assuming pottery - in 4t
xenon, superjm, and i stayed the same.

soliders went up another 3000 - i hate that jump - archers coming out??

land area went up 15 tiles! we know TAD didnt grow- but expect him to this turn. It is new cities by TAD and Azza that account for the 15.

pop up 2000 - consistent with 2 fresh cities.

TAD still has 20 points un-accounted for. You know - we did gain 13 tiles the first time we grew. but i am showing that on turn 13 - less than the 20 turns required. I will have to dig up some old saves. of course, that was memorial day - i was away. nope 19 tiles still at eot9. i'd get a notification in the log if it was a wonder, right? plus a wonder would be 25 points, no?

he could have teched something, as he has 4t since last researched something.

would i not get a game log notification for the wonder if I didn't know about the technology that the wonder comes from? Maybe that's it - he built something, but no notification.

[waterbat]

uh oh - look at the catwalk dotmap above... now that i know he's my neighbor to my west - if he settled the eastern dotmap he;s going to get a headstart on getting to me - plus horses in the BFC


i might need hunting soon - azza on the other side with WCs pending no doubt.

[waterbat]

Catwalk approaches from the west. I moved out the capitol guards to meet him in the forest. If he moves to open ground - I assume 2 warriors would do him in? I have no idea about simple combat in this game also i hate to sim something like that i guess I can do it in the sandbox pretty easily. Not sure how to apply promotions.



Demos:



score:
Azza teched something in 4t (of course)
catwalk grew 1 pop
xenon grew 1 pop
we teched wheel
superjm +8 points? maybe 2 pops?

soldiers went up 7000. I almost counted our wheel in there. Azza teched Archery and +1000 for one of the growths? I am not convinced - azza probably could have gotten archery in 3 if he really wanted it.

Oh also - now is the time when we would have expected TAD to get his 19 points for extra land. Perhaps he got it already 2t early and that explains the weird jump in score Noone got points for land this turn, so i dont know.

Population gained 52000 and min went from 22->42

so someone has 2 size 3 cities - i think catwalk here - he must be bulding another worker or settler and his second city grew to 3. He was passed up by superjm or superjm passed him. not sure. I think maybe superjm grew both his cities to go from 3-1 to 4-2.

xenon had 4-1 cities so he also growing to 4-2.

that would but the count at:

Code:

azza
    cap    5    90000
    2nd    1     1000

catwalk
    cap    3    21000
    2nd    3    21000  +15000

xenon
    cap    4    48000  
    2nd    2     6000   +5000

superjm
    cap    4    48000  +27000
    2nd    2     6000   +5000

thearchduke
    cap    4    48000
    2nd    1     1000


290k/5 = 58k

sweet!! that works out (for once I *might* have gotten something correct)


Soldiers:
like i said - went up 7k - 3 of the growths would have resulted in 1000 soldier points, so that means archery off the table for azza. i think my earlier tech theories were forgetting that the turn started on 0 and that prereq bonuses would apply right away. I think Azza probably teched AH on t7 and then got pottery this turn (or some turn in between that I had forgotten about). Ether way. Im giving it to him now. and changing AH to T7.

would he really have been able to gain 60 beakers on me in 30 turns? i've given him all the lowest techs. so i dont get it.

anyway also didnt get a chance to do analysis on catwalk in the science area since we met:

doing it now:
of course since he followed similar tech path to us, this analysis doesnt show much . does confirm he has wheel - as well as TAD having wheel - which is funny as it was his starting tech








Land:

I was wrong last turn about the new settlements.

Land grew by 15 tiles and 2 small cities were founded - so i fugured 8+7 was the deal - but you know - there arent that many big spots arround. Also MIN land went up by only 4. This most likely was Azza settling in close to his city as well - same as Catwalk.

that means archduke gained x number from his city plant. and someone else gained 11-x ? it might have been thearchduke himself if he got an instant religion spread to it - i dont know if that is possible. It wasnt superjm and noone else is CRE to get their first city's borders popped. Just not sure.

In any event, this turn, total land went up 14.

All 14 MUST be TAD's growing to 4th ring. - so what does that tell us? That TAD's second city must not overlap with that 4th ring at all. I wonder if he settled up where we did arround the stone/gold?! It will be interesting to see in the threads afterward.