[SPOILERS] A new Thread [SPOILERS]

[flugauto]

I have been busy, could not comment. Sorry.
I see Baii culture-conquered the Izmir horses.
About Samsun, I was thinking to grow Istanbul to size 18, then to give the sugar and the clam to Samsun and Ankara to grow them faster.
Denizli got a Confu spread, how convenient.

[Mardoc]

I have been busy, could not comment. Sorry.

If you weren't busy, you'd still be in command, I'm sure .

I've got to say, I'd be happy to team with you in a future game if your schedule clears up enough for you to want to. You've built a solid empire here, and you think differently than me, which means you keep spotting these things in my blindspots.

I see Baii culture-conquered the Izmir horses.

For now, anyway. We've got Confucianism into Izmir and I'll be adding at least a library as well. We may get them back.

About Samsun, I was thinking to grow Istanbul to size 18, then to give the sugar and the clam to Samsun and Ankara to grow them faster.

Hmm. Long term I want Istanbul to have all the tiles, but it may be worth doing that short term. Samsun in particular is going to have a lot of trouble growing to stagnation size.

Yeah, I think I'll do that. At least with Samsun - Ankara has its own food and may be up to size before borrowing those two makes sense.

Denizli got a Confu spread, how convenient.

Yes! Spreading it from both sides of the empire, and Denizli has food without a ton of improved tiles, which means whips, which means it's a pretty decent hammer source really.

We're already up against the missionary limit, so it'll be a gradual process from here. But we've four cities with Confucianism, maybe worth the cost of Organized Religion by now? Definitely will be worth it soon.

In other news, it looks like Jowy continued his trend, taking another city from Yuri and burning it. Poor Yuri. I think we've definitely got a weak border civ now, the trouble is Gawdzak can benefit from it a lot more than we can. Here's hoping Yuri manages to make France an armed camp until we're ready for foreign adventures.

[Mardoc]

Great news!


Only it does mean I've got to think a bit. We're no longer going to be bouncing off the happy cap, anywhere, anytime soon. So if I want more workers and settlers - which I do - then I've got to consciously choose some cities to pause.

Ended up choosing Edirne, Malayta, and Ekisekir for the time being - all have coasts as their best tile to grow onto. Or more realistically - the tiles that they'll be whipped off of next turn; gotta remember that whip-regrow is considerably more efficient than straight building, except maybe in a Bureau-cap. I think I'm going to have to rotate food-hammer duty around to most cities in turn, though, if we ever want to hit our happy caps.

2 settlers and a worker in this first round. I think I've got a handle on tile improvements for the most part, and our GNP can certainly absorb the hit.

Paused the Hammam in Istanbul since we now can't use the happy or health bonuses immediately - it's putting up a Grocer instead. We'll still finish that Hammam, but it can wait.

Researching up to Printing Press looks like it'll take five turns of 100% research, and neither Alphabet nor Paper gives a significant bonus on their own. I'm just stockpiling cash until we can afford to run directly to PP, therefore. Interestingly, 100% research would put us in #1 GNP, while 100% cash leaves us in seventh. That situation is definitely improved enough that settler time is here again!

Yuri's now in Slavery. After losing something like four-six cities. And in his first turn of slavery, whipped twice. I'm starting to think Jowy might outright win the war. Although I don't think it'll help him in the long run.

[Mardoc]

Hmmm....Catwalk had four score decreases, of 2 and 3 each. Looking in game, we find this:


Also, the value of a pop is 2.24 for this game. Either he's 1-pop whipping the bejeebus out of his empire, or he's using that shiny new civic for some drafting. I think I know which way to bet.

If it were anyone but Nakor, I'd be ecstatic. I've been convinced that drafting pre-Rifle is generally a bad idea, and I'm confident he's either drafting Maces or Muskets. But...Nakor might fold in a way that makes this profitable for Catwalk . Here's hoping he's learned from his previous experience - 14 cities to Catwalk's 17 means he ought, in theory, to be able to stop 1-movers cold. At least Catwalk gave him warning first, and *then* started working on his army.

Ah well, just got to keep on keeping on.

More analysis!



Diyarkabir is a good balanced city. I want to work just about every tile in its BFC, it's got the hammers needed to put up multipliers and also the hammers for a good deal of unit/ship building when I get around to that. Nothing fancy here, just finish the mine and cottage and grow-grow-grow. I'm actually a little bit tempted to workshop that plains tile, but I think those glorious coast tiles call for serious investment into commerce-multiplication. And if I build those, then a cottage is quite valuable.




Izmir's a bit more complicated. And actually, on reflection, I think I've been mismanaging it by just plunking down cottages. This city will never have a ton of commerce anyway, given how many of its tiles are taken up by resources and hills; no river either. It's got a serious food surplus, and it's a border city. I think I ought to switch gears and put in workshops. Turn the windmill into a mine, as well - I guess wasting worker turns is the cost I pay for assuming rather than analyzing. Finish the forge, add some culture buildings to get the horse back (and coincidentally turn Izmir into a fortress), and this city could be worth easily 20-30 hpt. On the front lines, exactly where I need units. And flugauto already put up a barracks here, even. If I have a successful war, it can become a nice naval pump as well.

If I workshop all the cottages and unimproved plains, I exactly break even on food, but that means I never actually work all its tiles because it takes too long to grown. Not much point in keeping cottages here, though, since I won't want to put up much commerce multiplication. I hate to admit it, but I probably need to write off all the worker turns I've spent down here since the takeover - refarm the grass and probably plains by the lake, then workshop/mine everything else. If I'm counting right, that leaves me with 20 hpt base and 4 food surplus. That's enough to either grow onto all the hammer tiles + some coast and set up a whip cycle, or to work an engineer and maybe a priest. Or an artist. More hammers as I get to Chemistry and/or swap into Caste, of course.

Bonus: total hammer focus means I'll be able to get that 6 gpt Courthouse up soon too.



Kayseri is another mixed bag. More coast, combined with already growing cottages means this is not going to be a hammer-focused city - but it does have potential if I can just get those hills mined and worked. We'll still have significant food surplus to be run mainly through the whip - but at the same time I want a lot of pop and library/market/grocer in place. And more culture would never go amiss in a border city like this. And that's enough hammers that I could be happy putting up a barracks and knocking out a bunch of units, too.

Need to get some workers and worker cover in here - given the infra I want, I need to get those mines built ASAP. And chop the forest.


Finally, Malayta is simple. Much food, much coastline, and the remaining tiles are mainly commerce. Grow onto *all* the coast, mine the grass hill, put up either cottages or workshops on the plains, and supply most hammers via the . If it were just a tad better developed it'd be a prime Moai site, but we're only allowed one of those and I just don't think it'll get built in a timely manner. That said, Malayta's an excellent city right now for pumping out all sorts of things for the empire. Lots of food and tiles that aren't too painful to whip off of. Settlers, workers, commerce, maybe even a handful of units - just no wonders. When I can I want the commerce multipliers up here too, since eventually it's going to have a lot of raw FinCoast commerce.

[Mardoc]

Played this morning, not much to report yet. Zanth entered a Golden Age.

We suppressed our GNP a goodly bit by whipping out the settlers and workers, and stuck some more in queues to whip next turn. They'll be heading toward the marble island and the backfill peninsulae to the east. I expect all of these to hurt our demos in the short term, but they'll be worth it long term. But I don't want to stretch our military any further quite yet, since I'm not willing to invest many hammers into it at the moment. Plus keeping the empire from getting too stretched will help with maintenance bills.

Every time I look at any of the diplo screens, it seems we have the most cities. This push is definitely going to help keep that in place!

Anyway, more to come later if I have the time to analyze more cities or if anything noteworthy happens in foreign lands.

[Mardoc]

Hmm, Catwalk's around, but not playing. Not any personal reason, which suggests turn split - and not with Nakor even though he's at war there, because Nakor's played and Catwalk hasn't. Only Jowy and Yuri are possibly the one he's waiting for, and I believe he was at war with Jowy right before I took over here.

I think Catwalk's probably either about to declare on Jowy, or Jowy's about to start his second front and Catwalk's aware. In either case, Yuri may actually survive - and Furungy and Gawdzak both have an opportunity more compelling than Ottoman lands.

So we ought to be able to continue peaceful development.

[Mardoc]

Two more cities for later analysis:






Gut thoughts, possibly to be overruled once I think deeply: Marsin's just about finished, it is what it is. Lot of commerce, enough food to sustain some whips, never going to be much more than it is now. Although the commerce trifecta would still be useful here, and some more culture against Rome might also come in handy.

Sinop isn't much now but potential. Lots of potential, though: Fish/Clams/Lake will mean that it'll have tons of food; once it gets basic infra up and growth, I think this might be a pretty decent hammer city actually. Whip and also mines/workshops. And the usual tons of coast to supplement the empire's science rate.

[Mardoc]

Marsin's just about finished, it is what it is. Lot of commerce, enough food to sustain some whips, never going to be much more than it is now. Although the commerce trifecta would still be useful here, and some more culture against Rome might also come in handy.

On further thought, I don't really have anything to add here. It'll be a better city if/when I get control of some more coast, and I should probably set up a workshop on that plains tile across the lake, but this is a vanilla commerce generator and whip-production city. I'll want to keep it growing just to maximize income, but it'll be incremental improvement from here.

Sinop isn't much now but potential. Lots of potential, though: Fish/Clams/Lake will mean that it'll have tons of food; once it gets basic infra up and growth, I think this might be a pretty decent hammer city actually. Whip and also mines/workshops. And the usual tons of coast to supplement the empire's science rate.

Argh, Sinop is another example of wasted worker turns. That cottage I built is silly - no rivers, even limited coastline unless/until I can catch up to BaII's culture in the area - not much point in even trying for a commerce city here. Maybe eventually I'll want a Market for the happiness but 14 already and 2 more with Forge is probably enough. 10 food surplus post-lighthouse, and two hills, and actual plains tiles - that's a lot of hammers, if I just build workshops instead of cottages. And it ought to set up pretty fast, too. And hammer cities are the empire's weakness, in current configuration, anyway, so I should jump at any chance I get to set one up.

Well, silver lining: Sinop will be a great whip-production city darn near immediately, with or without significant worker turns invested. Finish the lighthouse, get a little culture in here to provide coast tiles to store pop on between whips, and it should have no problem being the eastern military anchor for the empire. I can gradually put up the mines and workshops and grow onto them permanently when I need to let whip unhappy run down.

[Mardoc]

And I was right - Catwalk declared on Jowy, signed peace with Nakor. Gawdzak also declared on Jowy and signed peace right afterward, and Jowy signed peace with Yuri as well...crazy shuffling but I guess net result is Catwalk and Jowy are going at it. Jowy was winning against Yuri so he probably still has an army. Be interesting for lurkers, maybe, but I don't think it'll affect us.

So time for more screenies in the 'Better Know a District' series:

[Mardoc]

Denizli's a tough one. It's worth having for the gems and the canal, but it's squeezed enough between other cities without a real food source of its own that I don't think it'll ever produce all that much. I tend to think it'll be a whip/draft camp for most of its life, or maybe run some specialists. Steal enough food from its neighbors to enable it to be another happy counter ticking .

I should probably have it steal a lake or the spices from Malayta. Malayta's doing fine with the fish, it doesn't need all the food in the region. But at the moment both cities need all the food they can get, so it's not obvious.

Edit: Hmm, unless I steal tiles from the east? Add another mine, a plains workshop, maybe a couple grass workshops in the tiles to the north that'll be part of the city post-border pop...I could finangle this into a significant hammer city. Won't ever be awesome hammers, but decent - and it's starting to look like that's the most I can hope for on this map




Oidu, on the other hand, is almost painfully obvious. Work all the tiles I can, no meaningful production outside the whip unless I steal tiles from Rome. Maybe trade tiles with a neighboring city if I set up out-of-sync whip cycles, but realistically it's not likely to matter which city is working a given coast. Probably it's objectively better, or at least has more potential of its own than Denizli, but it'll require almost no thought.

Course, that's reassuring in a sense - I can't really mess up here . Not like what I've been doing with Izmir. The city's basically done on tile improvements, just needs eventual market/grocer and as much growth as I can afford. With units mixed in as possible and necessary.