I've seen a stack of war bears/sprites attack a giant spiders tower and get slaughtered, should I post the save? I don't have it with me now, it'd be this night.
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Depends on how many of each...Bears are worth 72 and Spiders are 112 so if there were more bears than spiders that attack can happened. (The outcome, while in favor of the AI, is ultimately random. If one of two almost equal sides gets much better rolls in the important turns, they win.)
Um... Hi everyone. I have been lurking for the past week or so soaking up what info I can, but I thought it was time to join the forum. I hope that it's ok that I use this thread for my own questions... (I wanted to make a new thread, but just didn't see the button for doing so. Maybe brand new accounts don't have that option right away? That or I'm blind.)
First I want to give a big thanks to Seravy. I was really surprised to see that a game I remember fondly from childhood was not only still being played, but actively modded and updated! I'm a programmer myself but I couldn't imagine the pain of hex editing and disassembly, I like to work at a higher level language. So that's awesome. That being said... even when I did play the original, I never progressed past normal difficulty so trying normal on v5.0 is... rough. I'm getting my butt handed to me, hah. There's a lot of basic strategy I've forgotten over the years and even more that has changed between MoM and CoM so until I get my bearings I'm a filthy savescummer. Hopefully I progress past that point though.  All of that being said... trying a Normal game with mostly default settings, Fair in all the world-gen options, running 8 Nature books, Specialist, Channeler and Conjurer. I'd heard how important summoning is early game and wanted to try it out. Using Nomad race. Now, my opponents are Tauron with Chaos/Channeler, Jafar with Sorcery/Warlord, Tlaloc with Death/Nature/Cult Leader, and Oberic with Nature/Chaos/Astrologer. My first roadbump was around turn 15-20 when both Jafar and Tlaloc trying to place outposts right outside my capital... I suppose I'm not used to early expansion. I smacked those down, getting into wars, and pumped my own settlers out. Now I have 4 towns developing. I soon after realized Jafar is my next-door neighbor, with his capital only about 10 tiles from my own. Knowing how painful Sorcery can be I've tried to cut him down to size quickly. I've taken his other town on my continent, and am threatening his capital. But I'm finding Sprites are basically inadequate for the task. My only buff spell is Resist Elements which I have been spamming, but he has Focus Magic Nagas which seem to out-magic my Sprites and destroy them. I only have the skill to cast Web twice which won't do against 5 nagas. I've just built my capital up to start making Griffons but those get cut down to size by the Halberdiers... Yay for negate first strike >.> No matter how I play it I'm not strong enough to seal the deal yet. So is there something obvious I am missing here? Is it just too soon to try to wipe him out? Due to AI alliances I'm at war now with everyone by Tlaloc. I don't think I ever played Nature much in vanilla so I'm not sure what to work towards. Maybe I just need to git gud, hah. This is in January 1408. 
I'm new to the mod too, I found it last... Saturday I think? Anyway, I've found that there is a lot more range available for each school of magic. Before, sprites were AWESOME because the only early thing to deal with them was to build bowmen or slingers, chaos had some help here with fire breathing hellhounds, but otherwise flight just made sprites that strong. Now, however, death gets a ranged attack on ghouls and sorcery gets a ranged attack from Focus Magic, leaving life as the only one with no way to hit flying (chaos doesn't really have range, but high skill overall means you have to worry about more firebolts).
The AI tends to favor ranged units when possible. This makes it pretty difficult to assault them, but a bonus to this is most of the ranged being used is magical, so resist elements is very helpful and has no upkeep cost. Basic swordsmen have Large Shield which gives +3 defense, and resist elements is another +4 on top of the existing... I think it's 2 - the down side is nagas have first strike and poison, making them better than the average swordsman. On top of that, nomads almost all have ranged attacks now, so they can attack back. Get mithril or at least a barracks+alchemist guild for 1 bonus damage due to level and 1 to hit due to the guild. If you like you can stand back away from them and weather the shots (each only has 4) and at 8 range they get -2 to hit. I think focus magic is 3 damage *3 figures per naga unit, and I think naga have +1(10%) to hit with base at 30% so they'll average 3.6 within 4 tiles, but 1.8 outside of 8 tiles, then you average a base of 2 +4(resist elements)+3(large shield)*0.3(chance to block)=2.7 damage blocked. You have 6 ammo while they have 4, so make use of that before they come toward you to take advantage of first strike. That said, in general the summons are the better units until you can start pumping out stronger normal units. Magicians have 20mp now instead of just a fireball! I'm not sure how much a lot of this helps, but maybe it'll give you some ideas. Also, don't trust water walking. Water walking on ships lets them move over land (but not carry units), but if they get in a battle on land they die. On the other side of things, water walking is a cheap enchantment so is easily removed from units (I recently lost 2 behemoths to drowning). If you have trouble with halberdiers, use horsebowmen, they move 5, so can easily stay out of range. If you run out of ammo, just stay out of range for 25 turns and attack again next turn, you'll wear them down easily that way.
October 11th, 2017, 11:00
(This post was last modified: October 11th, 2017, 12:03 by Nelphine.)
I would normally expect at least uncommons by 1408. I'm surprised sprites can't beat nagas - assuming you can get a numerical superiority that is. If its his fortress with 9 nagas, that can happen. The AI has been specifucally taught to try to do everything possible to keep their fortress alive, so they always try to have the best heroes and summons possible in it.
It is his Fortress. 5 Nagas and 4 Halberdiers. But with magic focus the nagas go first and nuke 1-2 of my 7 sprite units off the bat. I guess I can try to sacrifice a stack of 9 sprites to weaken him... I've also either just researched, or about to research Giant Spiders, if I can get enough of those to web all the nagas, that might help... I haven't played Nature much even in vanilla, so there's a lot I'm learning firsthand. I think I tended to prefer Life+Sorcery and buffed standard units.
I also thought magic attacks didn't have a range penalty? Or has that changed? The nagas actively move the opposite direction from my units, which I figure they wouldn't if there was a range penalty for that. Also also, my sprites only have 4 shots each. Quote:Water walking on ships lets them move over land (but not carry units), but if they get in a battle on land they die. Sounds like a bug. Water Walking should not take priority over Sailing. Although Wraith Form should and it's also water walking, just as a part of Non-corporeal. Arrgh. About Nagas, don't forget the Poison. Against 8 resistance Sprites it doesn't sound good but they only have 5 health total so it hurts them a lot.
I suppose my previous questions are irrelevant as just a couple turns later Tauron attacked my fortress with 8 Hell Hounds... I foolishly only had 2 units in garrison. I'm too used to Vanilla where that would be a valid early-game tactic to focus on economy, I guess... I don't see an easy way out of this situation so I guess that I will start again from Turn 1, on a fresh map. I probably made too many mistakes in my first 10-15 turns. Is there some generally accepted "build" to aim for early on?
In normal difficulty you can typically keep up with production by focusing on a few towns that you can defend. I found it more difficult than standard MoM, but, so long as you don't get into a war on all fronts, it's not too bad.
There are a few early strategies that are pretty awesome, such as focus magic cockatrices (the stoning touch is carried on the ranged attack), early gargoyles, ALL THE GHOULS (they have ranged now and that ranged creates undead, bring earth to mud to make a number of fights trivial), life+berzerkers (I haven't tried it, but zerkers are the highest strategic value military unit and they have good speed and offense), nagas+focus magic (as you've seen). That's about all I can think of off the top of my head. I suggest making ships. On low difficulties just keep one town making ships forever - preferably higher tier ships if possible and it will give you a military buffer, and you can throw them at forces wandering the sea. They aren't amazing in combat, even if you can make them fly, but that buffer helps to push any treaties through. That's just personal experience though. I'm never able to keep up with the AI in military in higher difficulties, but if I keep a town making ships I'm able to stay closer without eating all my resources in upkeep. |
