[49 spoilers] Miguelito, pindicator and Adrien take Shiva by the hands

[Miguelito]

turn 51

In foreign news, Elkad made peace with Raskolnikov. The last remaining war is now Cornflakes/Raskolnikov, which has been going on for ages (literally, when a turn equals 40 years)

Comm keeps moving his chariot(s?):


I have trouble understanding what he's doing there. He played a double turn 50/51 (so I don't feel threatened atm), but moving his chariot from the marked tile such that it faces SE makes no sense to me. So maybe he moved the original chariot east and this is a second one Whatever it is, I don't feel too concerned: He can't move effectively on Mahadeva through the jungle, and Pashupati is covered by a spear now (though I had to move the scout/warrior on the forest to protect that worker, now if he has 2 (!) chariots on the fogged grassland then that's a problem. Highly unlikely though. Maybe he has just one chariot, has no real plans for it, and just wants to confuse me ? In a perfect world he tries to molest Cairo (though Cairo has that spear there so it wouldn't really matter)
I'm also pre-building a spear at Pashu for a turn without delaying the Oracle eta (which depends on the marble connect).

Ruff also has a veteran from his SD war coming over:


I don't think it's aggressive. Either he wants to look out what we're doing or he wants to prepare a plant on the rice/cow. Either is fine, though I was expecting him to plant on the island next?

Speaking of, I simmed AH vs Sailing first, and with AH the settler for the fifth city comes before the galley, and we can't start a trireme when the Oracle finishes. I have little hopes of still finding the spot empty in the ~10 turns we'd need, but it would suck to lose it due to that. Btw if we do manage to settle the island, Ruff's anti-archer promo on ALL of his AGG melee units will be really annoying. 



Mahadeva had the archer whipped (which will move to the copper spot), and will start a settler, which on turn 53 gets finished with another whip, and can move in position on turn 54 after thar road on the desert hill is finished. The capital is growing on the archer, then an axe, until it can start a galley (I'll have a look at a variant which gets another worker out first). I'll take the FPH over the bare cow occasionally, and even both fish at times. The capital is also where I'll try to rush a forge for the engineer (assuming the Oracle plan even gets somewhere)

Forgot to take a demos shot, but we're 4th in MfG/CY, both above average. 6th in soldiers, slightly below average.

[RefSteel]

Sorry I wasn't around in time to respond to your double-move question. (My inconsistent time availability is a big part of the reason I didn't volunteer to be an arbiter-type for the game after making the map) - I'm glad but not surprised that it was resolved amicably.

I don't know, I personally find it's never too early to complain about the map.

I'm with you all the way. As long as complaining about the map is fun to do and/or helps let off frustration so it's easier to enjoy the game - good or bad or awful as the map on which it's played may be - then go for it!

Besides, if with more map knowledge, you find your complaints were spot-on, you can emphasize them, adding to your post count and driving home the point so that future map makers might not make the same mistakes! And if with more map knowledge, you find your complaints weren't justified after all, then waiting for that information would mean not posting the complaints, and how can you win the post-count war like that?

Regardless, I hope you all enjoy the game on (and, if necessary, in spite of) the map!

[pindicator]

The double moving isn't really double moving, per se. He (edit: Commodore) isn't using it to get any kind of strategic advantage, he's just playing when available. If anything it tells me he has no threatening plans with his chariot and is just scouting the area. He may have a settler inbound, but right now that chariot is just keeping tabs on the border area.

Now Ruff's axe to me is more indicative of a unit ahead of a settler. He may just be forward scouting as well but I see that border as far more likely to have a settler show up. We may have competition down there.

[Miguelito]

Sorry I wasn't around in time to respond to your double-move question.  (My inconsistent time availability is a big part of the reason I didn't volunteer to be an arbiter-type for the game after making the map) - I'm glad but not surprised that it was resolved amicably.

I don't know, I personally find it's never too early to complain about the map.

I'm with you all the way.  As long as complaining about the map is fun to do and/or helps let off frustration so it's easier to enjoy the game - good or bad or awful as the map on which it's played may be - then go for it!

Besides, if with more map knowledge, you find your complaints were spot-on, you can emphasize them, adding to your post count and driving home the point so that future map makers might not make the same mistakes!  And if with more map knowledge, you find your complaints weren't justified after all, then waiting for that information would mean not posting the complaints, and how can you win the post-count war like that?

Regardless, I hope you all enjoy the game on (and, if necessary, in spite of) the map!

Happy to see you are being a good sport about it. I hope my complaints seem somewhat reasonable at least at my level of map knowledge. I'm very much looking forward to find out if you have something more in store for us, or to read, after the game, what you had in mind when designing our start.

The map is definitely interesting, giving me a lot to think about, and so far I am enjoying the game very much.

The double moving isn't really double moving, per se. He (edit: Commodore) isn't using it to get any kind of strategic advantage, he's just playing when available. If anything it tells me he has no threatening plans with his chariot and is just scouting the area. He may have a settler inbound, but right now that chariot is just keeping tabs on the border area.

Now Ruff's axe to me is more indicative of a unit ahead of a settler. He may just be forward scouting as well but I see that border as far more likely to have a settler show up. We may have competition down there.

Yep, that last double move was acutally relaxing for me, as I would assume that if he was about to attack he'd maintain the turn split. Ruff seems set to found on the stone/rice/cow (more on that in the report), and that is rightfully his land. I had been fantasizing that the war with superdeath would distract him from settling there but that was always a huge stretch. One question though: since we have a trade connection, I have to assume he has Sailing, right? In particular, we're not connected just because Cairo has Sailing and he can trade with both of us, correct? Asking because I'd expect him to go for the island instead.

[Miguelito]

turns 52 & 53 (the game is still at a n incredible pace, I barely manage to keep up with reports)




Chopping the spice forest. Comm is currently not too threatening with his chariots



same region next turn sees Comm's borders expanded onto the rice. I'm now quite sure that that's his 2nd city there (he's still at three), which is nice actually because it has some potential for conflict with Cairo. It also means that our plans to expand towards this valley were futile from the beginning. Shame our scout missed him on his first walk there.



Ruff has a tracker around. I assume he'll wheel back in time to build the totem pole for the new city.  I really like that mechanic for NA. Bonus info: we have a trade connection with Elkad, so he very probably sits on the eastern shore of our sea. Oh yeah, Elkad founded a third city (which probably triggered the connection, as it wasn't there before)

Cities:


Rare occasion where the cap gets both fishes. The archer is for the island (I hope). Next up is starting a worker, then grow in one turn on the galley, 2pop whip that, then finish the worker.



Mahadeva is woithout doubt our best city atm. After the settler (for the marble site) it finishes the axe, then probably starts another settler right away, intended for the island, which gets build with natural hammers. It comes just in time to hop onto the boat 2SW of the city, which delivers him on the plains hill the turn after, in order to found on t62. Biting my nails for Cairo's or Ruff's settler appearing before.
You can also see the road, now finished, that the settler can take to arrive on the PH south of the marble in one turn. There's a barb warrior walking around. In the worst case I have to secure the plant with an axe which is on the stone right now (the archer is securing the workers on the marble meanwhile)



Pashupati, working on the Oracle. The build queue is a mess, and the granary especially does look ugly - it gets whipped the turn before we connect marble (58), such that the overflow together with the second chop finishes the wonder on t59.

I'm still maintaining the sandbox btw, it's attached if oyu want to play around


Demos and graphs. We're about even now in power with Cairo and Comm, that's somewhat relaxing, although I don't plan to add a lot very soon (plans may change). CY is a bit concerning, but I think that can just fixed with expansion, and starting to cottage the flood plains more extensively.

[Miguelito]

turn 54

Ruff offered pigs/cow. I canceled (I'd rather not have it visible to everybody), but offered back (I suppose he doesn't actually want the health). I hope we can be friends for a good while (at least as long as he doesn't take the island). With the city by the wheat and him founding where his axe is, we'd have a pretty safe border, and I'm really not  interested in a conflict with his archer-eating AGG melee units anytime soon. Nor run against his totem pole powered city defenses.
The enemy is Cairo, and hopefully not Commodore, but the latter is also a threat.

...which may be relaxed for a whil though, as Elkad declared on him:


I have no idea what that means. I know Comm has us to the southwest, Cairo SE, and Raskolnikov west. If he borders Elkad I understand this map even less. It would be in Comm's NE I think. Now why is Elkad declaring on Boudicca? I can only think of a settling conflict, but wouldn't complain if it gets serious

In more foreign news, Cairo (who has no stones, and seems not to be doing Stonehenge after all (still unbuilt!)) chopped a forest at his third city and also has it on pop2 since turn 52. I expect a monument, maybe even a barracks. I think maybe 12-15 turns after that he'll get his first ring back (the 2 coast tiles first). I will do my best to get the road down on the jungle why he can't see the worker, so 2 SW of the city, such that 2-movers are still able to strike from the fog anytime. He still only has an archer in there, with the spear sitting on the hill, and I think 3 chariots could safely dislodge that, but a) I went for Sailing over AH and b) that would be the famous small insult with all the potential to result in a permawar of frustration.

the settling party is in place:


Marble takes 4 turns of both workers for the quarry , then another one to finish the road (got one turn into that already). I'm feeling the worker turns don here are actually the main cost of the whole Oracle affair. At least the quarry is somewhat good for building the granary.

Demos/graphs

finally, Ref has brought to my attention that I had been missing the more important graphs:


winning   (made with this. Shame that William seems to be lost to RB, I liked him)

[pindicator]

How many workers do we currently have?

[Miguelito]

How many workers do we currently have?

Still just three . There's another coming out of the cap before the 5th city is founded. So far I've largely avoided working unimproved tiles, but you could argue that that's because I've kept the cities whipped down to no more than size 4, which may be a negative for mid term development.  I want to get the next the cities out rather fast*, but after that I wanted to pause and put an increased focus on stabilizing/ development.  Do you think that's warranted earlier? I am aware that I'm supposed  to have rather more workers than cities.


*marble,  island, wheat/elephant/clam in the south; for the last one I don't have an eta yet.and may slot in another worker. We may lose the race to the island, actually quite likely

[AdrienIer]

Just a thought, it might be worth farming a FP in the new city eventually to get an even number of fpt.
Going for two early wonders, without being ind, even with marble, might be a bit much.

[Miguelito]

Just a thought, it might be worth farming a FP in the new city eventually to get an even number of fpt.
Going for two early wonders, without being ind, even with marble, might be a bit much.

careful, don't talk to pindi of farming flood plains (I had floated that idea before, but he convinced me otherwise). Why is even fpt important?

also, to be clear: We're going for just one wonder atm, the Oracle (and yes, I'm starting to regret it, considering the immense cost in worker turns when the desert marble is still a bad tile, and marble isn't going to be useful again too soon. But it is what it is, and at least it gives some suspense)
IF we land it, one main perk is the engineer. If the pyramids are still available at that point I will hardly be able to resist the temptation. Otherwise the engineer is still excellent for bulbing towards Engineering, where our UU and pirates (and the other good stuff) sit. You can argue though that the forge equals another wonder, at 120h without bonus it costs us more than the Oracle itself (not quite, as the marble bonus kicks in just on the final turn, but still).
I plan to build the forge in the cap with whip overflow btw, and I'm tempted to go for Mono before AH to help that (and the granaries) with the OR bonus, but I expect dismissal from my dedlurkers (seriously, AH is really important, won't delay that any longer, and very probably take Agri as well, as it's needed for the 6th city which should come soon enough (5th city if we get the island snatched away)