[Spoilers] Victoria of Korea - Mardoc and SevenSpirits

[SevenSpirits]

Look at the maps again: there's no desert island. Instead as it turns out, the northwest corners of the player starts are all desert.

There might be minor differences in homelands but from the tiles we can see so far they are 100% identical, including rivers, so really the only possible difference is resources and that is unlikely outside of maybe stone/marble.

[SevenSpirits]

I'm going to be away from my main computer for the next few days so you should probably play the turns (if there are any), though I do have civ on my laptop.

The only thing to be aware of is that IIRC our scout needs to not waste any moves at all if he's to reach the next player in the NW direction in the fewest number of turns. So he's going W along the bottom of Amelia's platform, NW at the corner intersection, and then up to the forest hill as usual.

[Mardoc]

Sounds like a plan. Operation: Tech Discount is under way!

Interestingly, I suspect that by the time we meet everyone, we'll have circumnavigated as well. Which won't do us much good, since it's faster to ride the rails around one of these oceans than to cross it going straight About the only possible benefit to a navy I see is that it would be such an odd choice that it might catch someone by surprise

Sometime in the next week we probably need to start extending our micro plan for after the first settler. I'm inclined to sneak in another worker, then warriors (or maybe an axe, presuming copper) while we regrow, then immediately to another whipped settler. Hopefully GES will have given us enough info to make a dotmap as well. And we'll need to decide on our tech path - Does wheel - pottery - religion still make sense? I think so, but that's partly because religion isn't that much of a priority for me. With such early contact and trade routes (connect to the rails and you're golden) religion ought to spread like wildfire.

And on the desert island question, I see that now it's not actually a whole desert island. So yes, I agree that all the evidence points toward identical homelands, or at least identical enough for a dotmap based on GES's start.

It appears that if we want to leverage Imperialistic into outsettling everyone, we'll pretty much just be claiming more bridges and Financial coasts. I think even if we have the opportunity to settle someone else's square, it would be unwise because it would just make us an enemy, and as a Financial civ, we want to delay that as long as possible. In terms of warring, I think we ought to be mostly reactive at this point, either defending ourselves or jumping into a war someone else starts. Even though that may disappoint Mist.

[Mist]

Interestingly, I suspect that by the time we meet everyone, we'll have circumnavigated as well. Which won't do us much good, since it's faster to ride the rails around one of these oceans than to cross it going straight About the only possible benefit to a navy I see is that it would be such an odd choice that it might catch someone by surprise

<devils advocate>
I'd have to disagree here - couple well placed forts ( channels ) and you have yourself a huge body of water to play with. And strategical choke points on railroads at the same time. Navy might be actually huge here - a lot of coast to defend, some decent sites on the water and so on. Just a thought to ponder
</devils advocate>

Even though that may disappoint Mist.

:neenernee

[Mardoc]

I'd have to disagree here - couple well placed forts ( channels )

Forts allow ships through? It's not just cities? Does that work in neutral land - or, importantly, in enemy lands? What about people using our forts against us? Do they need to be garrisoned if we build them to prevent that?

I'll admit, that makes a big difference, at least potentially. And we could definitely justify them to our diplo contacts as land bottlenecks even if our real purpose is to have canals. Because, of course, the main downside to using the rails for war is that it's so obvious, everyone will be prepared if you come that way (in fact, we will want bottlenecks there anyway, but I had been assuming cities were the only way to achieve that). Plus, there's the good ol' Sirian Doctrine later on, once ships can bombard.

If we're pushing to have many cities on the rails, maybe we should aim for the Great Lighthouse? I don't believe the trade routes must be coastal, so long as the city itself is, to benefit from the GL.

[Mist]

Forts allow ships through? It's not just cities? Does that work in neutral land - or, importantly, in enemy lands? What about people using our forts against us? Do they need to be garrisoned if we build them to prevent that?

Yes, they do. And only within your borders.

[novice]

With such early contact and trade routes (connect to the rails and you're golden) religion ought to spread like wildfire.

Good point, although another motivation for an early religion is that it's a handy way of expanding borders in your second city. Also, if religions spread like wildfire, the shrines will be valuable.

I don't believe the trade routes must be coastal, so long as the city itself is, to benefit from the GL.

That's correct.

[Mardoc]

Turn 8 is in the books. Kept both scout and warrior moving along the rails, found, well, mostly stuff that we expected.


That's right, Oceanic silkworms! I imagine there's nothing they can do expect look pretty and apparently grant +1 commerce to the tile? I'm guessing they might be the next 'incense', though, on platform F

Also, further exploration of Amelia's platform:


Again, this looks identical to what we have seen elsewhere, except with the replacement of our incense with dyes. I think we're going to find that everyone has a different luxury resource down there, so there'll be some resource wheeling and dealing despite the otherwise identical starts. I had originally thought they'd all be Calendar resources, but the elephants disprove that theory. So, we know about incense, dyes, sugar, and elephants - I bet the remaining ones are spices, silks, and fur.

I expect in two turns to meet the resident of platform E by moving the warrior east and in a circle around the rail intersection for 9 squares, then NW to the grass 1W of the forested hill; onto the hill turn after that. Meanwhile the scout will continue toward platform B. When he makes it to platform A, where we believe GES to be, I'm inclined to have him keep going, rather than take the 2 turn detour to confirm that. Although if we have any doubt on your map, that would be the way to check it.

But, I'm now darn near certain that your map is correct, since it's successfully predicting where new things are, not just trying to explain what we've already seen.

Demographics:

Amelia's got another 6 points, which ought to be another tech. With Mining turn 4, I think the only ones she can have gotten already are Fishing and Hunting. Hunting would have come with a 2K increase in Soldier points, which I don't think is there - rival average is still 6K. Unless the demographics screen rounds. But fishing makes more sense to me anyway, given the amount of water we've seen, and only hunting resource being the 'phants (plus Amelia's already told us she's been riding the rails and not found any other contacts, so she's seen a lot of water).

So, maybe Amelia's just projecting the Lanun here, or maybe she's planning her 2nd city to go south, at least to the lakes if not to the ocean. I'm a little surprised she's not going directly for Priesthood via religion herself, but I suppose there's no point in unlocking Ziggurats before she has a few cities.

On other topics; I start to think Mist might be right about navy not being worthless, at least, but since forts have to be in your culture to act as canals, I think we might as well use cities for that instead. The piece that seems potentially later significant, though, is that I expect the bridges to eventually get to be densely settled anyway, so our cities, open border cities, and conquest victims will all allow a navy to traverse. Meanwhile, railroads won't necessarily. I don't expect to want galleys, though.

And, thinking about religion - novice has a good point about shrines being quite valuable - with everyone only needing to build 5 squares of road to connect to everyone else who does so, I wouldn't be surprised if nearly everyone ends up Budd/Hindu, and with a large map like this, that could easily turn into 100+ cities, a shrine could be worth major moolah. I don't think it's enough to want the religion before the 2nd city, but shortly afterward could be nice. Assuming our C&D is good enough that we can get the one we aim for, anyway.

[Ruff_Hi]

That's right, Oceanic silkworms!

Dang it - that is just silly. Good luck trying to Work Boat it

[Mardoc]

Very little new this turn, no score or demo changes I see, and warrior/scout kept finding what we expected, but haven't quite made it into contact yet.