Japper and Cornflakes' team thread

[MJW (ya that one)]

I didn't read all your post when saying that.

I played a game to find out that you can delete trader units.

[Cornflakes]

Uneventful turn. I decided to promote my warrior now to Turtle since Woden's Potato archer is comin' 'round the mountain. If they move in next turn then I don't think we'll have time to chop walls. If they wait another turn turn then we might have time.

[Cornflakes]

We'll need to decide next turn whether we want to buy the builder or not. It's a risky proposition, and could lead to us losing the builder to a capture if the city falls quickly. Also I don't know how I thought above that CMF moves before Woden. Clearly from PYDT Woden is before CMF. Unfortunately this is worse for us since Woden's archers can indeed soften us up first before CMF's warriors attack.

Don't know if you've seen this or not, but I found a table on CFC with the damage calculations:

   

Thinking through my archer attack if they move in next turn I see two possible targets, the Potato archer or warrior on the bare hill. I'm assuming the archer would advance to the jungle. It will be about 40 expected damage if I hit it there, but it likely already has a promotion in hand or my attack would give it a promotion. Therefore it will be able to immediately heal more damage than I can deal. The warrior will have an expected damage roll around 30. Also I'm going to want my builder to chop the forest adjacent to that hill so my incentive would be to soften up that warrior.

Looking further at the situation I think I'll want to wait one additional turn to purchase the builder, until I can cover it with the Turtle warrior from the barb camp. If I move out the archer to cover the builder then I give up the 5 garrison city defense strength and also lose the attack from the archer on that turn. Ok, after looking at the damage table and the situation again I'm feeling a little more positive. I'll increase our odds of saving the city to 10%, up from 5%   Another potato archer appearing on that hill next turn and it's all doom and gloom again.

[Japper007]

Finished the first of two Warriors, moving towards you now

Looking at the front:



Why didn't you put the hurt on Wodens Archer during your turn? It was in the swamp and the road next to the city would've allowed you to move and shoot. That would've been a redline and a chance to retreat from the return fire (if any, I think Woden'd retreat) on your turn.

I think the Builder purchase is a bad idea, the move I predict from Woden and Chev is that they move onto jungle, Grass Forest and Grass Hill. This would mean that the Builder always has to move onto a tile next to a unit of theirs to get out of the city. EDIT just reread your post and escorting it with the Turtle promoted Warrior is fine.

To add to the Trader discussion yes you can delete traders once they finish their route.

[Cornflakes]

In retrospect you are right that I should have hit the archer this turn on the swamp. My thinking was "he'll be able to heal back the damage I deal with a promotion so what's the point" and "he'll hit me for 50% damage on my archer" ... forgetting that he could only do one or the other not both, and if he chose to attack I'd still be able to take him out next turn

[Cornflakes]

I'm really kicking myself here for not attacking that archer this turn! Thinking about this more I may have just lost us the city I checked the possible damage rolls from the archer + 2 warriors, and they are more than sufficient to take the city in 2 turns with average damage rolls. They would have to score almost the lowest possible luck on all 6 attacks in order to fail. The only wrench in I have to throw in is my 2 archer attacks (one next turn and one the following turn. If we can hold them off one more turn I can get 2 warriors into combat. If we can hold them off 2 turns (doesn't seem possible at this point) we could get walls up.

I was burned too many times by trying to attack out in my duels that I didn't think through the implications of the specific situation on this turn. The swamp now vs. jungle cover he'll have next turn makes a huge difference in the damage rolls. And I also didn't consider the fact that I can clearly see he has no backup archer behind the one that is flanking us. My attack out would have bought us the 1 turn we needed to get the archers in play, and probably would have bought us the 2nd turn for walls. Let's hope I learn the lesson for next time!

[Cornflakes]

What are your thoughts on my plan to swap into Colonization and push out a settler next? My plan after the archer that I just built is to get one more warrior (2 turns) and then chop the jungle on the hill NE of my capital into the settler using the Colonization policy. I think that whether or not we successfully defend Aranyaka we have enough military at this time. The longer I wait to get out another city the further i'll fall behind. If you go Builder > Settler then you'll have the iron mined at your capital within about 6 turns, right? With your UU in the field we'll be able to handle aggression from Woden's archers. They'ed be throwing away their game to try and press the attack further at tech parity/disadvantage.

One other random thought that occurred to me ... if we can get a DoF agreement with either of the other civs which have founded a religion, I can send my missionaries directly at them to earn relics rather than needing you to acquire another religion.

[Japper007]

The DoF angle hadn't occured to me, but yeah you sure could

To clarify: you mean pushing the settler out of your cap right? If so I'd say yes go for it. We need to get at least some economy rolling ASAP.
More military units will just drag us down and traffic jam up, just look at how gummed up and discombobulated Woden and Chevs assault is. With my UU in the field Woden's archers are pretty much nullified anyways (I've seen these guys with Turtle promo tank Field Cannon fire like it aint no thang, think of Black Panther in Captain America: Civil War ) I might even be able to scramble up  a battering ram or just take the city back outright before they build walls if they do manage to take it. 

Unless another team piles in on us I think this rush will be a temporary setback, not a game-ending situation, and bear in mind that Woden might look a little threatening and in a temporararily weak position to the other teams as well  Also if Woden can't close the deal on this his team is pretty boned. They have done nothing but build military pretty much full-stop, if they don't make significant gains now, their game is unsalvagable. If we hold on and get my UU out, I can already see Woden getting all defeatist like he did in previous games where his plans went awry.

My builder plan would put the Iron mine down in 6-7 turns yeah (can't be more exact, don't know how my builder cost inflated with Currency discovery), right now I'm finishing the second warrior (3 turns). Then builder afterwards (guessing 4 turns should've checked in game ).

Also don't beat yourself up over the missed attack oppertunity. I have a combined 1500+ hours in Civ 5, Civ 6 and the Warlock games (which all share essentially the same movement/combat system) and I still manage to pull some spectacularly   moves all the time.

[Cornflakes]

Builder costs increst +4 per builder that you complete (similar to settler cost increase). And good point about the psychological effect of stalling them and making little gains. I'd be very surprised though if they kept Aranyaka rather than razing it.

[Japper007]

Could you link me to an article or something on the production increases? I tried googling but the only thing that came up is other people who are just as clueless on it as I am..

At least tell me if this assumption is correct:

-Districts scale based on tech/civic progress, and through the discount mechanism which basically scales district cost based on how many you should have, while trying to ensure a balanced distribution of all types.
-Settlers, and Builders and Traders also then, scale purely of how many you build?
-Aquaducts and neighbourhoods don't scale at all (nor do Mbanza)