Winter Wonderland: Selrahc's FFH 2 thread

[Selrahc]

So what's going on this turn? More interesting than Bears and Bananas? Oh yeah. Much. Today we're going to talk about road building. Bet you were all looking forward to that.

Oh, also some diplomacy and war preparations. But I'll try to skim past that to keep the focus very much on the road building.


Oh yeah baby. Look at the cobbles on that one.

I've been keeping pretty quiet on the homefront, so let me bring you up to date. This is the Stelvio pass, the current semi-negotiated border between Kuriotate and Illian lands. With the open border agreement in place we're hoping to set up some nice early foreign trade routes for a little boost in incomes compared to the other civs.

PB's part of the project isn't completed yet, but should hopefully be done in the next few turns.

Sent this email. Also, more things were in the email, but I've included them in the non road building section of this update so that you all know to ignore them.

My half of the great road built. Much celebration. One quick ground breaking ceremony and then to work on the enormous border guard/tariff collection centre. I think I'll need to work on a tourist brochure though. How best to explain to the carefree Kuriotates that they'd be better off being rounded up to work in the ice mines of the Winter King? I think I'll play up the excellent ski resorts. That worked for Switzerland.

I'm not really sure that comparing Switzerland to the Illian empire is all that fair. One is a crazy highly militarized, defence oriented state demanding blood money from it's neighbours while it carries out its secret plans for world domination.. and the other is the Illian empire

My worker situation is substantially better than it was 13 turns ago. I've already got 4 workers built, with another under construction. So far they've farmed the two corns at the capital and are getting to work on building some mines to further boost production. Not much I can do to boost commerce yet though. They've also been highly active in building roads.

The two new conquests are out of resistance and both working on elder councils. Happiness is an issue. The obvious solution is to give them good Illian names to encourage the citizens to integrate with their new overlords/fellow citizens. If anyone has suggestions before my next turn go for it, otherwise I'll just name them according to whimsy and wikipedia lists of christmas songs.

The two new cities aren't yet connected to the empire, so obviously I'm going to need some more roads.


Maintenance costs are sky high. I'm losing 28gpt at the moment, but City States is in next turn so I can see what my science rate stabilizes at soon. I've already got plans brewing for my letum city, with the capital currently working on some settler escorts. Should probably be good to go in the next 12 turns. Connecting Letum to the grid is a priority as the strength gain for the Ice Elementals could be vital. Or the war could be over by then. Who knows with the way things are going in this game?

I'm wondering when to build Bone Palace. It's clearly not a priority for a while, but it is something to think about. The AI pretty much ignores philosophy forever(It's a good tech to trade your way to parity with in Immortal or Diety), so if you rush it you can basically build it whenever it suits you. Against humans I won't have that luxury.


On the war front then:


I'm scouting out Cull's border at the moment. Deleted the ice elemental after seeing what I could. I don't *think* that my Priests can be seen currently. Although frankly I expect Cull is going to be working full pelt at defence anyway.

I'm really surprised that he hasn't contacted me diplomatically at all. In this current mess or in the game as a whole. I initiated first contact and that was while Athlete was in control. I've had no diplomatic contact with Cull all game, and yet he's aligned himself against me pretty heavily by siding with Sareln.

Speaking of Sareln


He thinks he's found a deep enough hole to hide in. Well. We'll see if he's right. There is more than enough time to shut down his little safety net after I've taken out his dwarven defender.

So what about Bob? PB was pretty blatant about wanting me to take out Bob and while I respect his advice I think ultimately I'm better off attempting to build up good relations.

In the second half of my email to him I go into some of the other issues.

In grimmer news, I've decided to go after Cull. I know you want me to take down Bob but it was going to be impossible to pull off any kind of surprise with his scout hovering around the area, and I was starting a lot closer to Cull.

which are also true. I'm making this decision mainly on strategic rather than tactical grounds however.

bobchillingworth: heya, you had mentioned an NAP earlier
how does 30 turns sound?
me: It sounds okay.
No luck with finding Sareln then?
bobchillingworth: My scout hasn't seen anything
I'm trying to make my way to PB, so I'm probably heading in the wrong direction tho
me: Hm. Alright.
Has he got in contact with you at all?
bobchillingworth: sareln?
me: Yeah
bobchillingworth: yeah, actually. I got a full report on your forces, and his maps
me: Did he want anything in return?
bobchillingworth: nope
me: If I was him I'd be pleading for assistance from anyone who'd listen.
bobchillingworth: I think the intention was to make your next conquest more difficult
I assume that Cull got the same intel
me: Well I can agree to a thirty turn NAP, but maybe we should sort out some terms on it or something.
Being too ambiguous could haunt us later.
I mean, nothing unreasonable.
bobchillingworth: I don't attack you for 30 turns, or assist in an attack on you (difficult to do without gifting, but I guess like no cutting neutral territory roads or something), you abide by the same restrictions
after 30 turns, we can make a new one, just let it expire and live in peace, or declare
me: That sounds pretty reasonable.
bobchillingworth: cool
me: Alright, I guess it's agreed then.
bobchillingworth: yes
will you keep looking for sareln, or continue on first to Cull?
me: Confidentially?
bobchillingworth: of course
me: Look at Cull's city list. He's down to just one.
So he's gifted a city to Sareln
bobchillingworth: ah! I don't ever check that...
me: I'd like to have seen the offer that was worth giving up your second city and bringing some pissed off priests off winter to your doorstep.
But I hope he thinks it was worth it.
bobchillingworth: maybe palace mana?
me: For a dwarf?
bobchillingworth: shrug mind mana is nice...
hehe no mages though
forgot about that
me: I mean.. it's a little understandable maybe.
If he gets the city back.
But I'm still kind of baffled.
Unless he has some sort of anti-priest ray gun or something.
bobchillingworth: Depends on how long he had to give up the city, I guess
and if he thought you'd notice
if it's just for a few turns until sareln could settle elsewhere, heck, I'd be tempted
me: Yeah, I guess.
Ugh. I'm going to have to go and hunt down that settler after this.
And it could be anywhere.
bobchillingworth: why not make peace, after cull is dead sareln will be left with just one neophyte city, and no support
me: Hmm. I guess.
Leaves someone with a grudge sitting out in the wilderness.
And if he can limp to tier 3 he can prove a threat.
bobchillingworth: rangers?
me: Well.. Tier 3 is the last unlimited tier.
It's going to be functionally identical to a tier 4 army, but without the elites
And raiders are nasty.
Especially fast ones.
bobchillingworth: I agree, it'd be a real concern for me as well, especially since his units are so mobile
but with only one city, he'll have to be teching slow for a while
in that time, surely you can get adequate garrisons in your exposed towns
with your substantial lead?
me: I think the best thing to do is try and eliminate him.
If not now... as soon as I can.
bobchillingworth: that works too, I suppose
me: Unless I get some sort of vassalage treaty or the like.
bobchillingworth: when you wipe out cull, are you going to keep the cities?
they're kind of exposed
me: No. Razed.
Already running a loss.

I don't know. Difficult conversation. If PB/Veez is right then Bob was lying to me on a few occasions. On the other hand it's probably pretty hard to broach the subject of secret conspiracies against them to someone clearly on a rampage. I properly approached Bob for the first time after the conquest of Sareln's core, during the first part of the "Great Escape". If he was involved in discussions he was doing it before I gave him any sort of counter offer.

I was taking a pretty hardline merciless view in this conversation. I haven't actually made the decision that this is definitely an extermination campaign, but I'm okay with people thinking that I'm taking it that way.

I've locked him down to not helping my enemies, hopefully built up diplomatic relations and basically committed myself to exterminating Cull. Wise? Maybe, maybe not. I guess I'll find out by continuing to play. Definitely a "what if?" moment though.

EDIT: Just for the record the NAP runs from T83 to T113.

[Lurker]

The Calabim state that they are able to provide me with permanent settlement in 13 turns + move-time.

I don't attack you for 30 turns, or assist in an attack on you (difficult to do without gifting, but I guess like no cutting neutral territory roads or something), you abide by the same restrictions

...So if you were to just happen to find an ex-Calabim Elf city and decide to visit it within the next 30 turns, there is nothing bob can do to prevent you from razing it (without breaking his word)?

[Selrahc]

...So if you were to just happen to find an ex-Calabim Elf city and decide to visit it within the next 30 turns, there is nothing bob can do to prevent you from razing it (without breaking his word)?

Yep. Pretty much.

[Selrahc]

I'll give a proper update later. I've declared war on Cull and killed his top defender when I had no right to. A very nice combat 3 shock warrior met his end to my Ice Elemental, and most of his units are held still with slow.

[Selrahc]

Falling behind on the updates. This isn't due to lack of interesting events! Just been pretty busy IRL for the last few days. So lets do a fairly comprehensive update of the current situation.


[SIZE="3"]Frontlines[/SIZE]


On the battlefield things are going spectacularly well. Riuros the monster priest continues to gain a kill a turn at 99+% odds, and is about to reach combat 5. The other priests have both taken a single battle each at 92% odds with the axe, and reached combat 3. A little bit of a risk involved, but I was egged on by a friend. Happily it all worked out, but I would recommend a little more patience ordinarily.

Cull has consistently been losing 2-4 units per turn. His situation is dire and it has been playing out much the way I was thinking my initial campaign against Sareln would. That one went askew pretty extraordinarily but this one looks like it should stay on course if I pursue it. The priests have now gotten some vital combat promotions making them essentially untouchable, especially by warriors. His capital is mine for the taking in the next 2-3 turns and after that he will just have his less powerful second city. There is more to talk about with Cull beyond the situation on the front line and I'll go into it under international affairs.

[SIZE="3"]Homefront[/SIZE]

The situation at home however... is bad. The lack of any real commerce generating tiles across my empire is hurting badly. Even in city states I'm losing -5 gold per turn at 30% science with a reserve of just 14 gold, and a break even rate at 0%. This is not good. Um...
My entire science rate is based around elder councils and specialists, giving me 5 science per city, and 7.5 for the capital. This is letting me limp to education which is due in 2 turns, and the first order of business is to immediately plonk down some grassland river cottages in the land around my capital. I desperately need a cash injection from razing Cull's capital city.

I've got 6 workers now and I'm working on a settler to claim Letum Frigus. It may seem a silly move on the verge of economic collapse, but I'm hoping that the creation of cottages should go a long way to controlling my economic situation.

I'm actually having trouble thinking of what to build. I literally can't afford to build more units. The only thing I can think to build is some monuments, which aren't really needed at the moment, but are going to be needed later.

I am actually kind of used to this situation. The Illians are extremely prone to economic collapse, but even so this seems a rather harsh situation. Sareln's extremely rapid collapse has been a factor, pushing off my estimates heavily. The delayed nature of the PBEM also probably is warping my perceptions. Looking at the other nations as humans rather than predictable AI's also doesn't help my paranoia. Have I done a "Whosit" and crashed my economy on foolish military jaunts while leaving other nations to ramp up and dominate me economically? I'm hoping I haven't, but I guess we'll see. My economic fixes will be coming into play over the next dozen turns, and hopefully by the time of the T100 overview I'll be looking at a much healthier situation.

[SIZE="3"]International Affairs[/SIZE]


PB, Iskender and Bob are all doing quite well. Cull and Sareln are not(as you'd expect.). I'm still doing quite well, having the largest empire and the most terrifying military but my economic issues probably don't leave me in the best position. PB is clearly my biggest ally in the game, and a lot of my interactions with the other players have a trace of his influence over them.

I would say Pocketbeetle is overwhelmingly in the best situation at the moment. With three productive cities up and running, legends giving him a large amount of territory, and a good relationship with his nearest neighbour he looks set to ride the Kuriotate's to a good position going into the mid game.

Something that I continually forget is that this is a large map, giving PB 4 cities to play around with rather than 3. His current three city sites are decent rather than exceptional, so he may be saving his fourth one for a location that will have good long term potential. With financial to give him more economic power and sprawling allowing him some very large cities PB is the current economic giant. With the best economic and best research religions to play around with he can basically rest assured of his economic potential for awhile.

Remember though that his GNP is inflated on the graph somewhat thanks to his 2 holy cities contributing a large amount of culture and Kilmorph gold.

I think PB is quite possibly the favourite to win this game. I'd like to think I'm in with a shot, and Bob and Iskender are definitely still in the running. But PB has consistently been displaying an incredible level of command of information, and I think he has really played to the strengths of his civ and their good early game.

Bobchillingworth is clearly also in a good position. PB and Iskender are both worried about him. Which I find broadly useful, I hope conflict between Bob and others will help to draw attention away from me in what could be a difficult expansion phase.. He has a NAP with me and is using that to expand economically. Very very effectively. With three cities built and aristograrianism civics in place he is set up to grow like a weed in the near future. Potentially my destruction of Cull could relieve some of the pressure from his eastern borders helping him out. His main problem at the moment is that he isn't financial. It's worth noting that PB suspects Bob of being something of a puppet master, saying that he is essentially treating Sareln as a vassal. Bob himself has denied having any significant deals with the elves. Interesting...

The situation with Bob is going to be my biggest test of diplomacy. I want to develop an alliance with him, but I don't want him to run away with the game through lack of obstacle. PB wants me to be the obstacle to his growth, but I don't want to run that risk.

Iskender seems to be running a solid game. He's also expanded out to three cities, but doesn't have the same research edge that Bob has. That will probably be changing in the near future though. Fianancial Hippus can run aristograrianism as well as anyone can who isn't a vampire or a dwarf, and he might even have a research edge over non financial Decius. I've detected a little bit of fear towards the Calabim. So far relations haven't been that extended yet. I think he has so far managed to keep out of the web of intrigue that the priests have brought in their wake. He knows the priests haven't moved in his direction, and it looks like he doesn't want to get too involved with those who they've gone after. It's basically all quiet on this front.

Iskender seems to be a pretty good player and he's grown the Hippus very efficiently under his rule. One to watch as a developing power, but I'd say at the moment he is definitely below Bob and PB.


Sareln is in dire straits in terms of land and power. Having lost his core he has been reduced to a rump state, cast out to wonder the wilderness. I still need to track him down and terminate him. I think he played a solid game prior to the Priests, if running a little light on defence. He teched up pretty well, developed his land pretty well and was going to be among the first to develop his third city despite having no expansive trait. His big failure was making no effort to insulate himself against a priest rush, diplomatically or militarily. I suppose there is no really good answer to a S9 priest though.

Since the priests he appears to have played a masterful diplomatic game. I'm not entirely sure what he has offered or what his long term plans are, but from my perspective it all looks pretty slick.


Cull of course may be in even more difficult ground because the priests are in his land killing his soldiers. I don't think he can engineer himself a backup plan. Of course.. maybe he doesn't need to. I've been under some real pressure from PB to not follow through on my attack with Cull. To leave him be and go and finish off Sareln. I'm not entirely sure what PB's motives are in this, and I'll show you the correspondence with my thoughts later. If I do let Cull live it's going to be dependent on a good peace treaty. This situation is still under development.


That should hopefully do to bring you guys up to date. I'll do a diplomacy update soon once I've got this Cull situation resolved.

[Selrahc]

Big update coming on T100, sorry about the lack of updates over the previous 6 turns. Been pretty busy IRL for the last week and a bit.

[Selrahc]

[COLOR="Red"][SIZE="4"]T100 spectacular[/SIZE]
[/COLOR]


[SIZE="3"]Graphs and stuff[/SIZE]













Not doing too great right now. Despite having the most cities the fact that I haven't managed to get all the land improved yet, coupled with fairly low happy cap on my cities means I'm even getting beating in production and food. Although only PB is beating me in food, and I'm nowhere near my production capacity.

My GNP is still predictably low. Got a few cottages built now though, with more on the way.

I'm still way on top in power rating. The Ice Elementals are really noticeable on the graph, which is why it's fluctuating so much.


[SIZE="3"]Empire[/SIZE]



Ambition

Here you can see the planned limit of my expansion. Mainly eastward. as you'd expect.

Not sure how much of that I can reasonably claim, but I think it should be somewhat achievable. Of course once I get it, I'm going to wreck it. Cover as much of it in snow as I can.

By the time my economy is up and running I'll be happy to lose out on a small amount of research from rivers in order to make the land unpalatable for conquerors. As you can see, there is more than enough mana in that land to win a tower of mastery victory. 5 mutable sources is perfect.

Also, once thing you can notice on the extreme scroll out that I hadn't seen before.. you can just see the edge of a signpost inside the unexplored northern area meaning that one of the natural wonders of Erebus is in there. My bet is on the Ring of Carcer. I'm going to send a scout to explore.


Also of note: Ice Elementals will be strength 6-7, Spectres will be strength 4-10 depending on how much mana I dedicate to them and when I build their respective towers. I think Ice Elementals may actually be able to stay viable for a long long time. Especially if this really is a map without metal. Ice Elementals also don't conflict with building the towers.



Here is a closer look at the empire. 7 workers are attempting to get the terrain improved, cottages built, cotton and incense connected and a route up to Letum Frigus. I'd planned to have it up and running for T100 but misjudged things by a turn.



Which will be built next turn. My entire science rate is already coming from elder councils and specialists already so having to knock down the science rate to zero to pay for it won't be too much to handle. I want to get Ice Mana connected as soon as possible.

Max expansion mode is going to be my priority for quite a while and I hope my economy grows fast enough to deal with it.


[SIZE="3"]Technology[/SIZE]

Current technology:
Agriculture
Calendar
Exploration
Cartography
Crafting
Mining
Ancient Chants
Mysticism
Education
Philosophy
63 beakers/turn at 100% science with a -26 gold
22/turn at 0% with a +5 gold
26/turn break even at 10% with a +1 gold


Technology plans are to go for festivals. That will let me get markets
(And just as a thought, once I have markets up at every city that will pay for 12 gold of expenses, allowing me a much healthier looking break even of 60%/43 beakers, even without economic improvement being factored in.). After that animal husbandry is the priority followed by way of the wicked(slavery), masonry(brings in marble for a quicker Bone Palace) and bronze working(clearing jungles to bring in dye, bananas and sugar).
Knowledge of the Ether is my next military technology and the first step towards my army of ice mages. I'm going to research it as soon as I can slot it in and if the worst comes to the worst I'll grab it with my next Great Sage, due in 33 turns. That isn't great when it comes to my objective of having mages by turn 175.


Suffice to say I'm really hoping I don't get in a major tussle before at least turn 175, with my maximum expansion, minimum military proposal I'd be a sitting duck to either a horseman or centaur attack force. My best response would be to slave in axemen, but without copper their usefulness is limited.

This is why diplomacy is key.

[SIZE="3"]Military[/SIZE]

Not a big enough world to escape the wrath of Auric

The Priests of Winter have found their prey. Operation Elfskin Rug is go.

Sareln has two cities again. I really hope it's nearby... but even if it isn't this hunt isn't being abandoned now.

[SIZE="3"]Diplomacy[/SIZE]
Ugh. I've gotten way behind on this. Let's do a little bit of summarizing. I hope that's okay.


PB wanted me to leave Cull alone and loan him some mana in return for the location of Sareln. That sounded fine to me. If Cull agrees to my expansion plans I don't think letting him live hurts my victory plans.
I've also got my trade routes with PB up and running and we've traded corn for fish.

This exchange also featured the continued adventures of Veez the ratman. I'll post them up later.

Cull agreed to peace, agreed to my terms and then vanished. We've got some general agreements in place, but not done the specifics. I'll update you when I get a proper treaty agreement.

No real further conversation with Bob since the NAP. Cull has also pointed the finger at him as conspiring against me, and Iskender has asked me if I have any plans to deal with Bob down the line.

Some generally friendly conversation with Iskender. It's worthwhile trying to get him onside. I might try and coordinate with him on an atack on Bob down the line, although I haven't discussed that with him. That would keep him occupied militarily, as well as giving him ample expansion room. He also seems to be pretty paranoid about PB. Probably rightly so as PB is bossing over the economic elements of the game right now, and with the giants is also no slouch militarily.


Sareln has asked me for peace, but I rebuffed him. I honestly can't allow a raider civ with a focus on fast moving units and a grudge against me to live. The ammount of damage he could cause me is incalculable, and fairly independent of his place on the tech tree. Five hunters with mobility could run all over my territory smashing cottages or picking off backline cities. And as elves they can escape from any pursuing force through any forests I leave. An elven raider force won't win you a war but it can cause incredible economic damage to an opponent.



And that basically wraps up the T100 spectacular. If I left anything important out tell me.

[Square Leg]

Fantastic post!

I was wondering if you could talk a little about the Temple of the Hand and when/where you plan to use them. Where do you hammers come from post building them?

I know that there are many terraforming spells in this game, but is there no way to remove snow?

[plako]

Fantastic post!

I was wondering if you could talk a little about the Temple of the Hand and when/where you plan to use them. Where do you hammers come from post building them?

I know that there are many terraforming spells in this game, but is there no way to remove snow?

Good update indeed. If you can dedicate Archmage for the job, vitalize (Nature III) can improve also ice->tundra->plains->grass.

[Dantski]

Five hunters with mobility could run all over my territory smashing cottages

They can't pillage remember.

I know that there are many terraforming spells in this game, but is there no way to remove snow?

Fire I spell can turn snow into tundra. I'm interested somewhat in seeing selrahc build the deepening later or watching people try to negotiate with him not to build it.


Thanks for the update S