[SPOILERS] Serdoas thread

[Serdoa]

Turn 32 played.

Dazed did got 2000 soldier points turn 31. Though, Demos are always one turn late for him, as he is the last one to go, so I only see them now. 2000 points I guess from the graphs, so he probably got now either AH or Sailing. Probably Sailing and before it was AH - but really, it doesn't matter which one came first.

Also, I liked the demos this turn soooo much, I have to show them



Everywhere first where it counts. I have received 3 pop this turn, being at 5 in my cap, 2 in the other two cities. I finally netted the fish for Kismarton too. So, right now, looks good. I guess, soon others will found there 3rd city (if they haven't done so already). Well, it will take some more turns, but soon I will found city 4 and 5. Have to get some more workers going first though as I am still only at 2. But, soon that will be 5.

Edit: Forgot to tell, I also got the border pop in Graz.

[Serdoa]

Soldier points:

That is really interesting this round. So, we had

Inca: 38000
Maya: 26000
Otto: 29000
HRE: 26000
Avg: 29750

Now, from the graphs I know that HRE gone up last turn by 2000 soldier points and got a tech. As they cannot build warriors, it has to be a tech with soldier points. Well, doesn't matter. I know they received 2000 soldier points. Maya has got a tech and grown to 3 in both cities, so 1000 soldier points minimum.

This turn though, I have the following data-points:

Highest: 38000
Lowest: 26000
Avg: 30500

Now, last turn only two civs where at 26000 and both gained points for sure. Who is the one with 26000 now? The highest is still 38000 and I doubt that the highest lost 12000 points and the next highest gained 9000 all within one turn without any wars going on. So, Inca is out.

That means either Ottos:

- I do not see how they can lose 3000 points without losing pop because even if they had archers, the barb warriors should not win such a fight. And I doubt that they have Archery and Archers. If they would have, my lists would be so wrong, it would not even be funny. So, they are out and we believe for now that they have 29000 still

or Maya:

- I do not see how they can go up 1000 and then lose 1000 again without whipping. As before, by my lists no Archery.

or HRE:

- they graphs so that they have clearly gone up to 28000. The only explanation I could see is that they have lost a warrior to barbs - if that would not be shown on the graphs till next turn.

Now, none of that seems really to make sense. I am not sure when the graphs are produced, but I somehow doubt that they would not take into account the actions from barbs. I had hoped he would lose his warrior (he was near a barb warrior) but still, no, doesn't make too much sense that the graphs work this way. And also I would then miss again 2000 points. Could be then that Ottos or Maya received a warrior.

I think I will not be able to answer that before next turn.

edit: After reading that, I am not very clear. My issue is that the average gone up by 750. Times 4 for 4 players makes 3000. I have exactly 3000 points to distribute and I know to which civs. Only if I do that, no civ is at 26000 soldier points, everyone is above that. Therefore I search for an explanation, who could be the one with 26000 and why. I guess I can try to find out if it is HRE by loading the save up again and killing my troops till I am at 26000 - basically the same as when you change the tiles you are working to examine the exact yields for everyone. But I do not think I want to do that.

[Serdoa]

It seems - as unbelievable for me as it is - that Dazed was really the one to lose a warrior, though it was not shown on the graphs. Anyway, that means at least I know what happened there and probably means also that SleepingMoogle got either a warrior or a tech with soldier points - guess it was a tech, will look into it soon.

Nothing else to write right now, though I might post a dotmap for my next cities (I guess a lurkers already seen that the "C"-signs on my map are outdated).

[Serdoa]

Ok, after going through the demos, there IS a little bit more to tell:

Maya got 10 points score increase. First I thought "another tech?" but I looked at my tech-chart, they have received last round one, so that is impossible. They also received their landpoints already, so it's also not that. No message about a worldwonder build leaves only one thing: Population.

And 10 points for pop mean, that they have grown both cities to 4 pop and founded there 3rd city. So, on turn 33, Maya is the second one to have 3 cities. From my point of view, they have played the best game so far. Only thing they are lacking is soldiers. If I would be near them, I guess I would put two or three axes in range of one of there cities, only to get them to produce at least one axe. But I am not and as there neighbours are not much better suited militaryly (TTs soldier are a bad joke) or are not interested in that idea I will not be able to influence it via diplomacy.

[Serdoa]

Ok, turn 34 (we have played 35 also already, but I am late with reporting). The thing that I cannot explain: Inca gone up in score from 118 to 127. Thats 9 points, so a tech and a pop, easy enough. Well... except for that he has whipped his second city down to 2. At least thats the only explanation I have right now. Why?

Pop points: We have 181k for the leader, that is Maya with 5/5/1 pop. Then we have Dazed as last with 90k for his 5 pop in the cap. Avg. is 134500. TT hat 111k by turn 33, and received 6 points. That can only be a tech. He therefore cannot have whipped (well he can and regrown, but that does make a difference). So he stays at 111k. That leaves exactly 156k for scooter. And thats a 6 pop city (which is also shown by the top 5 cities) for 150k and a 2 pop city for 6k. As he had before 6/3 he whipped one pop.

And that means he gained 12 points. Now, a classical tech would get 12 points. Only, I do not see any classical tech he can have researched within 3 turns. By soldier points I would rather assume that he got TW (hard to say, 12000 increase, but I do not think that it were two axes) anyway.

So, I basically have no idea what has happened here. Possibility is that I got the pop points mixed up but then I would have no clue how because it made sense till last turn. Oh, and before I forget, it cannot be that he has got a pop point and a tech - because he was at 6/3 and would now be at 6/4 - 10 total, that would be 4 points for pop. Though, that assumes again that my pop calculation was not wrong.

[Serdoa]

Probably Dazed posted already in his thread our little "conversation" by email. I told him I think that SleepingMoogle and TT have an alliance. I do not really think that - though it is a possibility.

But this was more for one reason: I do want him to think about other people then me.

[Serdoa]

Turn 36

Score increase for Maya, Otto and HRE. Maya lost two pop, Otto gained 1 pop and a tech and HRE gained a tech.

HRE increased there soldier points last turn by 4000. I would guess on TW therefore. Maya has whipped the cap for 1 pop and the 2nd city for 2pop and gained 1 pop in there 3rd city. Ottos gained a tech and I am pretty sure it was Myst as they researched only 2 turns AND asked me if I go for Poly. I could but do not intend too.

I do still not know which tech Maya got 2 turns ago. Was also a two turn research without associated soldier points as far as I can tell. And that means (if I have everything else correct) that it has to be either Medi or Masonry. Medi does not make much sense if they can get Poly still and Masonry also makes not too much sense for me. He wouldn't try to grab Pyramids, would he?

Anyway. I also do not know which tech Ottos got 2 turns ago. Looking into it now (over the weekend we played so many turns, there was just not enough time for that) it should be Masonry or Sailing. As he wants to go for Poly, I do not think it was Masonry as that really does not make sense (putting research into a tech you do not need right now instead of an with a freebie if you are first? though decision...). And he received at that turn 2000 soldier points. Pretty sure it was Sailing - that means he is still really low on military and I know that he even sent an axe (the only one he has I think) to a barb city near his cap.

Diplo to come in the next posting.

[Serdoa]

TT

Hi Serdoa,

Just checking in to see how everything is going at your end. You will likely discover this turn that I have settled my third city in my northern land and so we are on city parity once more! How goes your civilisation? Are you planning on claiming Polytheism soon as I am surprised that noone has claimed it yet?

Also, you may or may not be aware of the spawning of a barbarian city called Saxon directly due West of my capital on the coast. I have an axe ready to attack the defending warriors garrisoning the city and wanted to make sure you had not dispatched units yourself.

Finally, I will soon have researched Writing and wanted your agreement to Open Borders as soon as the opportunity arises?

Your friend,

Twinkletoes

Answer

Hi TT,

I am glad to hear that you are also at 3 cities now. Dazed will be (or should be already) at 3 cities soon too and SleepingMoogle was I think even a turn or two faster then you. I will soon (turn 45 around) start an expansion push and probably also settle then the city between us. I was actually thinking about moving it one more tile east (directly on the coast), grabbing the fish and giving up the corn. I am not really sure if I want to do that though (I hadn't time to think about it really unfortunately), but I thought it is best to tell you now so you might be able to make your comments on it. Like I said, I am myself not really sure if I want to but if you are absolutely against it, I won't have to think about it anymore anyway.

I haven't noticed that barb city but I razed one in the south, near Dazed. Be aware that 3 warriors are guarding those cities initally (or at least I think so as I had 3 in the one I razed) so one axe may need several turns to heal in between with the possibility of some more enemies being build. And if it gets damaged to a low health number, they might even attack out (though I do not think that will happen if you do not go below 1). So maybe you should think about bringing another one in.

I will have Writing too soon so I actually was thinking about open borders. I surely would like to open borders with you.

For Poly, I have no intentions to go for it right now. I am pretty sure scooter won't try it too. That only leaves Dazed or SleepingMoogle as opponents. I unfortunately cannot tell you what either of them has in mind. But if you want to go for it, please do so. I will not compete

Kind regards,
Serdoa

Basically, I am trying to be helpful. Hope to get some diplo-points for it and somehow I like TT, so another reason to do that. I think he sometimes plays rather... interesting. But we all do that from time to time and I am myself not such a good player so I should shut my mouth (not that I am able to do that, often enough tried ).

[Serdoa]

scooters score increase: neverending story, second and last part (not so neverending then but who cares, it sounds good )

Sleeping one night did help to finally find out that

a) I am dumb
b) scooter got Medi on T9

The first one does not help me with the score increase, but the second one does. I am not sure how much culture you get for the holy city, I think 5 (so many things I never was interested in SP). He converted on T10 I think. At that time he had 22 culture. T11-14 would be 4 turns each 7 culture for 28. That is exactly 50, so second border pop. And that means he get the landpoints on T34 - that are his 12 points increase.

So, he did not get a tech and still does not have TW. Good to know as I am loosing ground right now in tech as well as cities. SleepingMoogle did a great job I think with his new cities. He is growing them rapidly and I think is improving them the turn they are founded. I could not do that for several reasons and am only now doing that.

However, since last turn, I am at 4 workers for my 3 cities and will be in 3 more turns at 5 (maybe even 6). That will get me a road network as well as fast improvements for my next 3 cities. I am planning to get 2 settlers from my cap at turn 40 or 41 around (maybe earlier but probably not). Producing the first one for one turn, whip it and produce the second the next round with overflow. The third should follow shortly after, so I hope to be at at least 6 cities by turn 50. Though I haven't calculated it exactly, it might be possible to go to 7. Only issue will be science rate at that point. I know that I have to pay some maintenance for those cities and I think the 7th will up that considerably (I have seen somewhere on CFC a chart on that topic but I think it is outdated). Does somebody have an up to date calculation at hand for that city maintenance?

The other issue is unit cost - does somebody have a link explaining how that is calculated? I think you get more free units the more cities you have but I would like to know exactly.

[pocketbeetle]

Sleeping one night did help to finally find out that

a) I am dumb
b) scooter got Medi on T9

The first one does not help me with the score increase, but the second one does.

Early border pops are often hard to catch, don't worry. ^^

The other issue is unit cost - does somebody have a link explaining how that is calculated? I think you get more free units the more cities you have but I would like to know exactly.

You get a certain free unit support per city, couldn't tell you what that number is.
Is there not a mouseover in the economic breakdown screen?

There is. I think it states 9 units for free (might be something else though) and I have currently 3 cities. Only, I am not sure if there is not an inital number, not taking into account city count. I would think there has to be one, otherwise till you settle your first city you would have to lose gold. And I never had that happening, no matter if I settled in place or moved around some turns first.

Load up a T0 save and take a look.
Sounds sensible though, I'd imagine it's something like 3 units free, 2 per city?