[SPOILER] Shaka of Inca - gingereagle1969 & Sandover

[Sandover]

It's worth 100g provided you don't end up losing the city or the tile improvement. You need to decide whether it's a secure enough investment.

[gingereagle1969]

It's worth 100g provided you don't end up losing the city or the tile improvement. You need to decide whether it's a secure enough investment.

I see, so we wait, take control of the tile, assuming we not suddenly over-run [maybe getting Currency ourselves in the meantime], and offer him the gold & open borders at the same time

Now, Nakor/Gaspar ... how about, instead of founding towards Whovus, I divert the Settler, & the already built garrison, over to secure the western border ... or is that going to stretch us?

[Sandover]

I don't see a need to rush there.

[gingereagle1969]

I don't see a need to rush there.

True, I'll settle as planned .. hopefully this'll put them off:

Sanibona Nakor & Gaspar

HIM really must insist that you settle behind the line denoted by the lake tile. He has no wish for a culture war should we settle, as originally planned, 2S1E of the Deer tile which appears to attracted your attention. From the survey map given by Ruff_Hi, this would appear to be the only source of Deer within our sovereign territory! We have received news from our investigating Quechua that he has see the edge of your culture and was shocked to suddenly have Cows come looming out of the fog, they were adjacent to this edge. This caused him a moment of deja vu as we have a similar configuration on our eastern edge. If your land is laid out similar to ours, we've already worked out that Whovus's is a vertical mirror-image of ours, then your Deer are located to your west. Him suggests you head there with your settler to claim them before Kyan, or indeed Malakai, spots it. HIM trusts you wouldn't want that.

The Work-Boat appeared in the only other lake tiles we have laid eyes on. Had we not discovered these, we wonder where it would have gone. HIm is annoyed that He did not think to offer Open Borders to Whovus when He graciously handed the city back. Whovus has offered us a deal, but from it we wonder about your relationship with him:

"After consulting with my ministers, we have decided that we could sell you a Work Boat for 100 gold. Up front.

Since neither of us have Currency at the moment, you could arrange to send the payment through Malakai. He seems like the trustworthy sort.

I do hope that you will consider our fair and generous offer."

He suggests using Malakai as an intermediary! Do you not yet have Currency? Does Malakai? Does he not trust you?

We will wait until we have wrested control of the tile back before we accept the offer.

Sobonana

Ambassador GingerEagle
on behalf of His Illustrious Majesty,
Shaka Rex of The Shakirite Empire
[may His hips never lie, may His breasts remain small and humble]

I'm beginning to wonder about their relationship, hopefully those digs will drive a wedge

I have the turn downloaded & will play shortly ... was considering suggesting I'd hold up play until they agreed

[gingereagle1969]

only point of note:



Really? Far away land? It's right here

The demos are too painful to view right now

[gingereagle1969]

hmmmm ...

Goeiedag Ambassador GingerEagle,

I think HIM must learn something from you about negotiating. The high and mighty can have dfficulties with that and it's up to us, mere mortals to make things work.
We have told you that moving the city to your proposed site is not an option for us. Yet all HIM is telling us, is the same thing.
Let's try to get to an agreement that benefits us both and not just one of us.
From your message it seems like HIM is worried about Deer. Maybe us gifting you the Deer (once connected) will make HIM feel less troubled with the settlement. We can, of course, talk about other things as well. Please ask him what would make this deal work for both of us.

Regarding the map, we have come to similar conclusions some time ago. The question remains how many lakes there are.

Regarding your question about Whosit and Currency, we hope to get currency soon and will be able to transfer money for the both of you should you come to an agreement with Whosit.

Kind regards,
Co-trainers Gaspar and Nakor, Totaal Voetbal

... I think they're now goading us to war ... if my supposition about their land is correct, their Deer tile is over the other side and they're trying to muscle in and take both!

here's my response, hope you concur Sandover:

Sanibona Nakor & Gaspar

I'm sorry, but HIM will not budge on the matter of the Deer tile. Considering you insisted our "lake" city should be positioned such that our BFC did not enter your square, how can you now propose to found a city which has two-thirds of your first ring within OUR territory? Please reconsider the last proposal to found Davids one tile west of your proposed site. Based on the assumption that your lay-out is like ours, this would give you the Cow and Sheep tiles to your north and a Rice tile to your south within your BFC. The eastern Cow tile and the Deer tile are OURS, and HIM is this close to force-marching the Settler, and a garrison, over to found "AnimalCity" immediately.

Also, please be aware that HIM is quite prepared to 'wiggle His hips' and make the world stand still until this issue is resolved to His satisfaction. Let it not come to this.

Sobonana

Ambassador GingerEagle
on behalf of His Illustrious Majesty,
Shaka Rex of The Shakirite Empire
[may His hips never lie, may His breasts remain small and humble]

Yes, I am proposing to stall the game over this matter.

[gingereagle1969]

double hmmm ...

Ambassador,

My co-trainer is unavailable for the remainder of the evening, so we will be unable to properly reply to your... request? Threat? Not entirely sure what you would call it, perhaps you can enlighten us. Regardless, we won't be able to respond until much later. If your request/threat/etc was intended to imply that you would be holding the save up until such time as you got what you wanted, rest assured you'll have to wait a bit, as we need to converse a bit before we make any official reply.

If you're concerned that we're going to stealthy plant the city before we've come to a mutual understanding, we can assure we will not settle any city in the area until our conversations on the matter have concluded, so don't feel like you need to hold the save for fear that you'll wake up to a new city on your borders. If the reasoning behind that request was anything else, well, we would find that... surprising.

Regards,
Gaspar, Co-trainer, Totaal Voetbal

OK, responded ... whilst having a pleasant chat with Tredje [in spoiler]

pacalbyz: Hello there!
I just sent you the save
Thought I'd let you know
me: thanks .. not seeing it .. will refresh
are .. there it is
Sent at 11:11 PM on Saturday
pacalbyz: Good stuff. I love it when the save moves quickly
It's bed time for me now though. Good night
me: gratz on the GW .. I was thinking about building that
pacalbyz: Thanks. If I had known, I might not have built it. It was a spur of the moment kind of thing with forests getting chopped
Maybe another Wonder?
me: we hadn't met when you started 7 I probalbly only started "thinking" about it .. lol
pacalbyz: Hehe
me: not with my ecomony atm
pacalbyz: Is it in a bad shape?
me: a cold-war can do that to you
now I've trouble with another neighbour wanting to settle within my square
pacalbyz: What caused the cold war? I thought we all started far away from each other?
The new guy settling close to you, is it Kyan?
He mentioned sharing borders with you.
me: I found Whosit at a lake, no, not Kyan, I have an agreement with him .. it's Gaspar
pacalbyz: I see, have they been settling aggressively?
They are my neighbours to the North/South
me: where they want next, or soon anyway, is .. nicking my Deer when they have their own somewhere
pacalbyz: How incosiderate
*inconsiederat
sigh, let me try again
*inconsiderate
There
have you discussed settling with them?
Might work out a deal
I am sure they don't want an angry Shaka on their borders
me: we're "talking"
I threatened to hold up the turn .. don't think they bought it
pacalbyz: Haha, that would probably make everyone mad, though
me: true
pacalbyz: A military threat would probably the most efficient, but that could of course ruin the relationship
me: just trying to push them 1 tile back, that's all
but even that is an uphill culture battle against a creative civ
Sent at 11:22 PM on Saturday
pacalbyz: That is true
They are hard to keep from encroaching upon your land
But, and I am sure you know this, you have the Terrace
If you get that and maybe a Library and Monument, the oods should be at least close to even
me: you should see what happened on the lake I share with Whosit .. my work-boat got flung across my land after his culture filled all the water tiles .. lol
pacalbyz: Haha
So what does it do now? Is it running around in a lake where you dont have a city?
me: yup
pacalbyz: I accidently closed Internet Explorer
me: lol
pacalbyz: New to this whole Google Chat thing
Heh
me: same here
pacalbyz: I'm going to hit the sack though, getting late here. I'll catch you around later. Good night.
me: night
Sent at 11:33 PM on Saturday

Sanibona Gaspar

Is it usual for Nakor to write to me?

I still find your proposed site unacceptable, considering our "negotiations" regarding the lake settlement. As it wasn't actually on the lake has made the fact Whosit's culture boomed, causing the flying boat, all the more galling.

Please settle 1W, I'll settle where I've already dotted, eventually, and we'll let the culture fight it out, OK?

Sobonana

Ambassador GingerEagle
on behalf of His Illustrious Majesty,
Shaka Rex of The Shakirite Empire
[may His hips never lie, may His breasts remain small and humble]

PS: I'll play the turn :D

[gingereagle1969]

OK, after the diplo-shenanigans ... turn played

Good news: CazadorDeAmor's borders popped!

Bad news: didn't take the Fish tile

Building Library until the city itself grows, then whip out a Worker who will then chop into the Library [or Monument first maybe] Then the entire work-force, once they've finished what they're currently doing will road from BackInBlack [founds next turn] and then chop the hell out of Pyramids [revolt to HR ... happiness everywhere, and full-production ... I'll ask Tredje not to build that ]

Also noticed that borders are about to pop in WakaWakaShaka, so slipping in BackInBlack next turn is even better, it will close the culture up nicely at the end of next turn. OK, I'll let the picture tell the rest of the story:

[Sandover]

My methods of negotiation usually include threats and a high power rating, which is more effective at providing entertainment than results, so if results are what you want you're probably better off without my advice.

[gingereagle1969]

My methods of negotiation usually include threats and a high power rating, which is more effective at providing entertainment than results, so if results are what you want you're probably better off without my advice.

I'm guessing my impression of you is flawed because:

a) power-rating isn't high enough
b) power-rating isn't far ahead enough
c) the over-all score shows it's all power & nothing else
d) all the above

guessing Gaspar also saw through my bluff to hold up the game

just checked to see if he'd responded, and this had come in from Tredje:

Hello GingerEagle,

Apparently I had logged off when you sent me this message. If you wish, I will not challenge you in building the Pyramids. Yet before you invest too many hammers in that expensive project, I would advise you to consider the costs/benefits. Perhaps it would be better to spend those hammers on Settlers/Workers instead and expand horizontally? Obviously you have a much better view of what would benefit your empire, and I am sure that you will choose the course that benefits you the most, so feel free to disregard my opinion. I simply wanted to share my view since I feel that a strong Shakirite empire is in the interest of the Byzantine empire.

All the best,

Tredje

Weird that the runaway leaders [Kyan & Tredje] are being so friendly towards the bottom scorer ... might as well stay honest, as I have been in my dealings with them, so my response was:

Sanibona Tredje

The reason for building The Pyramids is that my tech-rate is so bad,
due to just coming off military build-up, it's the quickest way to get
Hereditary Rule and/or [more precisely, and later] Police State! I'm
going to build it in my lake-side city to try & push back Whosit's
culture and will send my entire work-force to chop it out!!! As said
by many before "it's a long shot, but it might just work"

Sobonana

Amb. GingerEagle

Jeez .. while I was typing that last lot, this popped into the inbox:

Goeidag Ambassador GingerEagle,

Now we are talking business!
Things go so much smoother when both sides want to get an agreement in place.
Thanks for talking to HIM about how to handle these negotiations.

We will settle Davids 1W of the initial spot if you are willing to prolongue our NAP untill T125.
How's that for a deal?
To make it even better, we promise not to settle any more cities towards you unless they are "backfillers".

Could you ask HIM for a new set of posters of his Number-One-Wife? We would like to see another population explosion soon.

Kind regards,
Co-trainers Gaspar and Nakor, Totaal Voetbal

Turn 125 NAP, eh? Guess we'll have to heavily fortify the western border as well at this rate ... so that's 2 Settlers once WakaWakaShaka & SheWolf grow back to size 7 [sent with Axe & Spear, easily replaced]

Reply:

Sanibona Nakor & Gaspar

Agreed, and a turn 125 NAP is most acceptable. We will send a settler to secure our side of the border as soon as we can, so your culture doesn't get that much of a head start.

So we do not tread on each other's toes, may we also discuss Wonders? We want to build one in CazadorDeAmor to assist the culture battle with Whosit, a Terrace alone plainly isn't enough! What do you reckon to The Mausoleum of Maussollos? Or The Hanging Gardens? Naturally, either of these will require a massive forest clearance, we hope the smoke doesn't blow your way too much!

A poster, eh? Maybe the attached hologram [HIM's favourite] might do the trick!!!

Sobonana

Amb. GingerEagle

Notice I do not mention The Pyramids ... let's see if they "guide" us that way