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[SPOILER] Waterbat spends '104 Days of Summer Vacation'

#181
July 13th, 2012, 07:06
waterbat Offline
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so we went 4 days without a turn, but the save is moving again!

i solved a puzzle with the pop demos.

Last turn, catwalk and zenon had similar growths - i couldnt tell which one grew a city from size 3 to size 4 and which one grew size 2 to size 3.

THis turn catwalk got no score increase, but whatever i did, i couldnt get the pop #s to line up for Azza.

So... after finishing my turn, i reloaded and whipped all my cities down in a manner which would allow me to figure out where in the order/ranking i stood. I probed for catwalks score and it was much lower than i thought - so He was the 2-3 grower instead of the 3-4 grower i gave him credit for.

QUestion again for lurkers (if any): Is that against the rules? I reopened a save i already played for the purposes of C&D - but instead of just grabbing captures, i made moves (whipping). is that ok?

Previously i had occassionally been doing this - moving tiles worked to manipulate gnp for known-civ-with-tech purposes - that didnt seem as drastic as whipping.
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Best dating advice on RB: When you can't hide your unit, go in fast and hard. -- Sullla
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#182
July 18th, 2012, 16:55
waterbat Offline
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ok - i thought i was finally losing the C&D war- all of a sudden the score jumps became incomprehensible - but! i think its because classical techs are worth double ancient techs, right? If so, all seems right with the world.


Its t48! Here is the state of the empire at EoT (so growths + production has already happened):

core and pending border with catwalk:
[Image: t48-0.jpg]
There is a settler there who will cross the river next turn (using all movement) and will found city #4 on t50. I am slow building libraries in Ferb and Perry. The capitol is hopefully preparing its last whip for a while. Speaking of the capitol - anyone care to guess what is going on there?

eastern lands towards the Egyptian/Statisticals:
[Image: t48-1.jpg]

northern land bridge where i'd like to settle the plentiful FPs (10 total in the BFCs of 2 cities):
[Image: t48-2.jpg]

Lands of Xenon:
[Image: t48-3.jpg]

It looks like i misjudged the map! Damn you, Mist, for your trickery!

We have an additional southern land bridge that would connect us to Xenon
Code:
\               \          \
        \              \          \
  --- Catwalk ------ Waterbat --- Azza
        |    \        |    \      |  \
  \     |      \      |      \    |    \
    \   |        \    |        \  |
  --- Superjm  -----  TAD -----  Xenon
         \             \           \
          \              \           \

It looks like that mystery land bridge has some good resources! (gold, corn, clams, copper, fish, and MOAR flood plains). At the risk of spreading out my empire in a long diagonal line, what do you think? shall i push for this area? I think its going to remain uncontested for a while, so I'm leaning on waiting. although gold + floodplains.... it seems a shame to let them sit there:
[Image: t48-4.jpg]

more to come later... the classical era has begun for at least 3 civs. Iron Working has fallen, but i don't think it was catwalk.

And... as for the "minor complications" encountered in the tech thread.... catwalk whipped 4 times this turn!! total rival soldiers went up 16000, but min also went up 3... actually because of the offset from the whipping, - i could be looking at a real gain of 20000 in units -- hmm. I am starting to doubt my choice of leaving libraries in queue this turn. Well, I did offer cease fire to catwalk - perhaps he will comply. If he doesnt, i think i should switch those builds.
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Best dating advice on RB: When you can't hide your unit, go in fast and hard. -- Sullla
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#183
July 18th, 2012, 17:30
Merovech Offline
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How is your worker force? Those screenshots look like there are a few unimproved useful tiles (although I don't think you're actually working any unimproved ones).
Merovech's Mapmaking Guidelines:
0. Player Requests: The player's requests take precedence, even if they contradict the following guidelines.

1. Balance: The map must be balanced, both in regards to land quality and availability and in regards to special civilization features. A map may be wonderfully unique and surprising, but, if it is unbalanced, the game will suffer and the player's enjoyment will not be as high as it could be.

2. Identity and Enjoyment: The map should be interesting to play at all levels, from city placement and management to the border-created interactions between civilizations, and should include varied terrain. Flavor should enhance the inherent pleasure resulting from the underlying tile arrangements. The map should not be exceedingly lush, but it is better to err on the lush side than on the poor side when placing terrain.

3. Feel (Avoiding Gimmicks): The map should not be overwhelmed or dominated by the mapmaker's flavor. Embellishment of the map through the use of special improvements, barbarian units, and abnormal terrain can enhance the identity and enjoyment of the map, but should take a backseat to the more normal aspects of the map. The game should usually not revolve around the flavor, but merely be accented by it.

4. Realism: Where possible, the terrain of the map should be realistic. Jungles on desert tiles, or even next to desert tiles, should therefore have a very specific reason for existing. Rivers should run downhill or across level ground into bodies of water. Irrigated terrain should have a higher grassland to plains ratio than dry terrain. Mountain chains should cast rain shadows. Islands, mountains, and peninsulas should follow logical plate tectonics.
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#184
July 19th, 2012, 08:36
waterbat Offline
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thanks Mero.

Here is my 5-worker force. The 3 in forests are chopping (2t). The remaining 2 forests in the cap's BFC have been pre-chopped (5 total).

[Image: t48-5.jpg]

If I would have remembered I had a sixth worker popping out of Phineas next turn, the warrior in the west would be up by Ferb making cottages, i guess. The way it worked out, he will be well position to camp the deer as soon as ...Candice, i guess?, is founded.

Cities:

Phineas - extra farms I have rarely used. occassionally, ive had to work a GFH to get a couple extra hammers.
[Image: t48-6.jpg]

Ferb - about to work an unimproved tile (not counting the oasis - its pre-improved!). That's where the worker mentioned above would have come in handy. I contemplated switching off the mine this turn to get the growth a turn early, but the gold was too shiny.
[Image: t48-7.jpg]

Perry - With switching the corn between capitol and Perry, I've never had use for the rice here. Health hasn't been a problem and I also have cows I could hook up north of Phineas. The deer at the new city site will probably come online before the rice as well. After growth, I'll work the mine.
[Image: t48-8.jpg]
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Best dating advice on RB: When you can't hide your unit, go in fast and hard. -- Sullla
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#185
July 20th, 2012, 06:08
waterbat Offline
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ok - so I can't run science at 100% - and I have a few libraries coming in soon. So.... I thought it made sense to minimize research for a while until the libraries come up - does that make sense?

For example - i am making 26 beakers at 70% - 39 at 100%, but not sustainable even for 1 turn.

So if I lower my research now to 13 beakers, save up some cash, if i then run 100% for the same amount of time - i should break even, right? The benefit from the libraries (2 of them) should kick in - I should be net positive on beakers.

This sounded good in theory, so i reduced my research to 40% (15 beakers).
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Best dating advice on RB: When you can't hide your unit, go in fast and hard. -- Sullla
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#186
July 20th, 2012, 06:18
waterbat Offline
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t49: Happy Fiftieth Turn!!

I almost had a panic attack when i logged in:
[Image: t49-0.jpg]

Ok Catwalk agreed to peace, a 20t NAP, and Open Borders... yes!! but wait.

wait

wait

WHERE IS MY STONE??

I AM BUILDING SOMETHING THAT NEEDS STONE NEXT TURN !?!?!?

[Image: t49-1.jpg]

oh ok... ok...

wait.

wait....

OH NOES! I DONT HAVE TIME TO BUILD A QUARRY!! bang

[Image: t49-2.jpg]

oh ok .... ok.... calm down.
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Best dating advice on RB: When you can't hide your unit, go in fast and hard. -- Sullla
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#187
July 20th, 2012, 06:47
waterbat Offline
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My 'brute force population solver' is paying off! I really didnt think it would be useful - as it really is an inefficient beast of an algorithm.

Here's basically how it works:

1) take total rival population (POP) as an input
2) find maximum city size (MaxCitySize)
2) take a minimum and maximum number of cities as an input (MinCities, MaxCities)
3) find the maximum number of each city size that coud fit into POP
4) iterate through all possible combinations - abandon a line if MaxCities is exceeded. Throw away solution if MinCities not exceeded.

pretty simple - but it takes FOREVER. Even knowing the number of cities (19) in the world doesnt help much - as it produces the following vector for max number of cities of each size. WIth inputs of the following: (all POPs in 1000s)

POP = 1063
MaxCities = 19
MinCities = 19

Code:
0    1
1    6
2    21
3    48
4    90
5    150
6    232
7    337
8    469
9    630
10    823
vector: 1 1 2 3 4 6 11 19 19 19 19

translation: The solution contains...
1 max size 11 city (pop 823,000)
1 max size 10 city (pop 630,000)
2 max size 9 cities (pop 469,000)
3 max size 8 cities (pop 337,000)
4 max size 7 cities (pop 232,000)
6 max size 6 cities (pop 150,000)
11 max size 5 cities (pop 90,000)
19 max size 4 cities (pop 48,000) (this number would have been 21 if not for MaxCities)
19 max size 3 cities (pop 21,000) (this number would have been 52-ish)
19 max size 2 cities (pop 6,000) (this number would have been 177-ish)
19 max size 1 cities (pop 1,000) (this number would have been 1063)


Even at this simple low city count, it takes about 10-15 minutes to run (not really sure, but its a while).

It gives this output:
Code:
11:0  10:0  9:0  8:0  7:0  6:0  5:4  4:13  3:2  2:0  1:0  city count: 19  pop count:78
11:0  10:0  9:0  8:0  7:0  6:2  5:3  4:6  3:8  2:0  1:0  city count: 19  pop count:75
11:0  10:0  9:0  8:0  7:0  6:0  5:5  4:11  3:2  2:1  1:0  city count: 19  pop count:77
11:0  10:0  9:0  8:0  7:0  6:2  5:4  4:4  3:8  2:1  1:0  city count: 19  pop count:74
11:0  10:0  9:0  8:0  7:0  6:0  5:6  4:9  3:2  2:2  1:0  city count: 19  pop count:76
11:0  10:0  9:0  8:0  7:0  6:3  5:0  4:10  3:4  2:2  1:0  city count: 19  pop count:74
11:0  10:0  9:0  8:0  7:0  6:2  5:5  4:2  3:8  2:2  1:0  city count: 19  pop count:73
11:0  10:0  9:0  8:0  7:0  6:0  5:7  4:7  3:2  2:3  1:0  city count: 19  pop count:75
11:0  10:0  9:0  8:0  7:0  6:3  5:1  4:8  3:4  2:3  1:0  city count: 19  pop count:73
11:0  10:0  9:0  8:0  7:0  6:2  5:6  4:0  3:8  2:3  1:0  city count: 19  pop count:72
11:0  10:0  9:0  8:0  7:0  6:5  5:0  4:1  3:10  2:3  1:0  city count: 19  pop count:70
11:0  10:0  9:0  8:0  7:0  6:0  5:8  4:5  3:2  2:4  1:0  city count: 19  pop count:74
11:0  10:0  9:0  8:0  7:0  6:3  5:2  4:6  3:4  2:4  1:0  city count: 19  pop count:72
11:0  10:0  9:0  8:0  7:3  6:0  5:0  4:2  3:10  2:4  1:0  city count: 19  pop count:67
11:0  10:0  9:0  8:0  7:0  6:0  5:9  4:3  3:2  2:5  1:0  city count: 19  pop count:73
11:0  10:0  9:0  8:0  7:0  6:3  5:3  4:4  3:4  2:5  1:0  city count: 19  pop count:71
11:0  10:0  9:0  8:0  7:3  6:0  5:1  4:0  3:10  2:5  1:0  city count: 19  pop count:66
11:0  10:0  9:0  8:0  7:0  6:0  5:10  4:1  3:2  2:6  1:0  city count: 19  pop count:72
11:0  10:0  9:0  8:0  7:0  6:3  5:4  4:2  3:4  2:6  1:0  city count: 19  pop count:70
11:0  10:1  9:0  8:0  7:0  6:0  5:0  4:4  3:8  2:6  1:0  city count: 19  pop count:62
11:0  10:0  9:0  8:0  7:0  6:4  5:0  4:8  3:0  2:7  1:0  city count: 19  pop count:70
11:0  10:0  9:0  8:0  7:0  6:3  5:5  4:0  3:4  2:7  1:0  city count: 19  pop count:69
11:0  10:1  9:0  8:0  7:0  6:0  5:1  4:2  3:8  2:7  1:0  city count: 19  pop count:61
11:0  10:0  9:0  8:0  7:0  6:4  5:1  4:6  3:0  2:8  1:0  city count: 19  pop count:69
11:0  10:1  9:0  8:0  7:0  6:0  5:2  4:0  3:8  2:8  1:0  city count: 19  pop count:60
11:0  10:0  9:0  8:0  7:0  6:4  5:2  4:4  3:0  2:9  1:0  city count: 19  pop count:68
11:0  10:0  9:0  8:0  7:3  6:1  5:0  4:0  3:6  2:9  1:0  city count: 19  pop count:63
11:0  10:0  9:0  8:0  7:0  6:4  5:3  4:2  3:0  2:10  1:0  city count: 19  pop count:67
11:0  10:0  9:0  8:0  7:0  6:4  5:4  4:0  3:0  2:11  1:0  city count: 19  pop count:66
11:0  10:0  9:0  8:1  7:2  6:0  5:0  4:2  3:3  2:11  1:0  city count: 19  pop count:61
11:0  10:1  9:0  8:0  7:0  6:1  5:0  4:2  3:4  2:11  1:0  city count: 19  pop count:58
11:0  10:0  9:0  8:1  7:2  6:0  5:1  4:0  3:3  2:12  1:0  city count: 19  pop count:60
11:0  10:1  9:0  8:0  7:0  6:1  5:1  4:0  3:4  2:12  1:0  city count: 19  pop count:57
11:0  10:1  9:0  8:0  7:0  6:2  5:0  4:0  3:0  2:16  1:0  city count: 19  pop count:54
11:0  10:0  9:0  8:0  7:2  6:1  5:1  4:1  3:13  2:0  1:1  city count: 19  pop count:69
11:0  10:0  9:0  8:1  7:1  6:0  5:0  4:5  3:10  2:1  1:1  city count: 19  pop count:68
11:0  10:0  9:0  8:1  7:1  6:0  5:1  4:3  3:10  2:2  1:1  city count: 19  pop count:67
11:0  10:0  9:0  8:0  7:2  6:0  5:0  4:10  3:3  2:3  1:1  city count: 19  pop count:70
11:0  10:0  9:0  8:1  7:1  6:0  5:2  4:1  3:10  2:3  1:1  city count: 19  pop count:66
11:0  10:0  9:0  8:0  7:2  6:0  5:1  4:8  3:3  2:4  1:1  city count: 19  pop count:69
11:0  10:0  9:0  8:0  7:2  6:2  5:0  4:1  3:9  2:4  1:1  city count: 19  pop count:66
11:0  10:0  9:0  8:0  7:2  6:0  5:2  4:6  3:3  2:5  1:1  city count: 19  pop count:68
11:0  10:0  9:0  8:0  7:2  6:0  5:3  4:4  3:3  2:6  1:1  city count: 19  pop count:67
11:0  10:0  9:0  8:1  7:1  6:1  5:0  4:3  3:6  2:6  1:1  city count: 19  pop count:64
11:0  10:0  9:0  8:0  7:2  6:0  5:4  4:2  3:3  2:7  1:1  city count: 19  pop count:66
11:0  10:0  9:0  8:1  7:1  6:1  5:1  4:1  3:6  2:7  1:1  city count: 19  pop count:63
11:0  10:0  9:0  8:0  7:2  6:0  5:5  4:0  3:3  2:8  1:1  city count: 19  pop count:65
11:0  10:0  9:0  8:2  7:0  6:0  5:0  4:5  3:3  2:8  1:1  city count: 19  pop count:62
11:0  10:0  9:1  8:0  7:1  6:0  5:0  4:4  3:4  2:8  1:1  city count: 19  pop count:61
11:0  10:0  9:0  8:2  7:0  6:0  5:1  4:3  3:3  2:9  1:1  city count: 19  pop count:61
11:0  10:0  9:1  8:0  7:1  6:0  5:1  4:2  3:4  2:9  1:1  city count: 19  pop count:60
11:0  10:0  9:0  8:2  7:0  6:0  5:2  4:1  3:3  2:10  1:1  city count: 19  pop count:60
11:0  10:0  9:1  8:0  7:1  6:0  5:2  4:0  3:4  2:10  1:1  city count: 19  pop count:59
11:0  10:0  9:0  8:1  7:1  6:2  5:0  4:1  3:2  2:11  1:1  city count: 19  pop count:60
11:0  10:0  9:1  8:0  7:1  6:1  5:0  4:2  3:0  2:13  1:1  city count: 19  pop count:57
11:0  10:0  9:1  8:0  7:1  6:1  5:1  4:0  3:0  2:14  1:1  city count: 19  pop count:56
11:0  10:0  9:0  8:1  7:0  6:0  5:0  4:13  3:3  2:0  1:2  city count: 19  pop count:71
11:0  10:0  9:0  8:0  7:1  6:1  5:2  4:7  3:6  2:0  1:2  city count: 19  pop count:71
11:0  10:0  9:1  8:0  7:0  6:0  5:2  4:3  3:11  2:0  1:2  city count: 19  pop count:66
11:0  10:0  9:0  8:0  7:1  6:3  5:1  4:0  3:12  2:0  1:2  city count: 19  pop count:68
11:0  10:0  9:0  8:1  7:0  6:0  5:1  4:11  3:3  2:1  1:2  city count: 19  pop count:70
11:0  10:0  9:0  8:0  7:1  6:1  5:3  4:5  3:6  2:1  1:2  city count: 19  pop count:70
11:0  10:0  9:0  8:1  7:0  6:2  5:0  4:4  3:9  2:1  1:2  city count: 19  pop count:67
11:0  10:0  9:1  8:0  7:0  6:0  5:3  4:1  3:11  2:1  1:2  city count: 19  pop count:65
11:0  10:0  9:0  8:1  7:0  6:0  5:2  4:9  3:3  2:2  1:2  city count: 19  pop count:69
11:0  10:0  9:0  8:0  7:1  6:1  5:4  4:3  3:6  2:2  1:2  city count: 19  pop count:69
11:0  10:0  9:0  8:1  7:0  6:2  5:1  4:2  3:9  2:2  1:2  city count: 19  pop count:66
11:0  10:0  9:0  8:0  7:1  6:2  5:0  4:9  3:2  2:3  1:2  city count: 19  pop count:69
11:0  10:0  9:0  8:1  7:0  6:0  5:3  4:7  3:3  2:3  1:2  city count: 19  pop count:68
11:0  10:0  9:0  8:0  7:1  6:1  5:5  4:1  3:6  2:3  1:2  city count: 19  pop count:68
11:0  10:0  9:1  8:0  7:0  6:1  5:0  4:5  3:7  2:3  1:2  city count: 19  pop count:64
11:0  10:0  9:0  8:1  7:0  6:2  5:2  4:0  3:9  2:3  1:2  city count: 19  pop count:65
11:0  10:0  9:0  8:0  7:1  6:2  5:1  4:7  3:2  2:4  1:2  city count: 19  pop count:68
11:0  10:0  9:0  8:1  7:0  6:0  5:4  4:5  3:3  2:4  1:2  city count: 19  pop count:67
11:0  10:0  9:1  8:0  7:0  6:1  5:1  4:3  3:7  2:4  1:2  city count: 19  pop count:63
11:0  10:0  9:0  8:0  7:1  6:4  5:0  4:0  3:8  2:4  1:2  city count: 19  pop count:65
11:0  10:0  9:0  8:0  7:1  6:2  5:2  4:5  3:2  2:5  1:2  city count: 19  pop count:67
11:0  10:0  9:0  8:1  7:0  6:0  5:5  4:3  3:3  2:5  1:2  city count: 19  pop count:66
11:0  10:0  9:1  8:0  7:0  6:1  5:2  4:1  3:7  2:5  1:2  city count: 19  pop count:62
11:0  10:0  9:0  8:0  7:1  6:2  5:3  4:3  3:2  2:6  1:2  city count: 19  pop count:66
11:0  10:0  9:0  8:1  7:0  6:0  5:6  4:1  3:3  2:6  1:2  city count: 19  pop count:65
11:0  10:0  9:0  8:1  7:0  6:3  5:0  4:2  3:5  2:6  1:2  city count: 19  pop count:63
11:0  10:0  9:0  8:0  7:1  6:2  5:4  4:1  3:2  2:7  1:2  city count: 19  pop count:65
11:0  10:0  9:0  8:1  7:0  6:3  5:1  4:0  3:5  2:7  1:2  city count: 19  pop count:62
11:0  10:0  9:1  8:0  7:0  6:2  5:0  4:3  3:3  2:8  1:2  city count: 19  pop count:60
11:0  10:0  9:1  8:0  7:0  6:2  5:1  4:1  3:3  2:9  1:2  city count: 19  pop count:59
11:1  10:0  9:0  8:0  7:0  6:0  5:0  4:0  3:7  2:9  1:2  city count: 19  pop count:52
11:0  10:0  9:0  8:1  7:0  6:4  5:0  4:0  3:1  2:11  1:2  city count: 19  pop count:59
11:0  10:1  9:0  8:0  7:1  6:0  5:0  4:1  3:2  2:12  1:2  city count: 19  pop count:53
11:0  10:0  9:0  8:0  7:0  6:0  5:8  4:5  3:3  2:0  1:3  city count: 19  pop count:72
11:0  10:0  9:0  8:0  7:0  6:3  5:2  4:6  3:5  2:0  1:3  city count: 19  pop count:70
11:0  10:0  9:0  8:0  7:3  6:0  5:0  4:2  3:11  2:0  1:3  city count: 19  pop count:65
11:0  10:0  9:0  8:0  7:0  6:0  5:9  4:3  3:3  2:1  1:3  city count: 19  pop count:71
11:0  10:0  9:0  8:0  7:0  6:3  5:3  4:4  3:5  2:1  1:3  city count: 19  pop count:69
11:0  10:0  9:0  8:0  7:3  6:0  5:1  4:0  3:11  2:1  1:3  city count: 19  pop count:64
11:0  10:0  9:0  8:0  7:0  6:0  5:10  4:1  3:3  2:2  1:3  city count: 19  pop count:70
11:0  10:0  9:0  8:0  7:0  6:3  5:4  4:2  3:5  2:2  1:3  city count: 19  pop count:68
11:0  10:1  9:0  8:0  7:0  6:0  5:0  4:4  3:9  2:2  1:3  city count: 19  pop count:60
11:0  10:0  9:0  8:0  7:0  6:4  5:0  4:8  3:1  2:3  1:3  city count: 19  pop count:68
11:0  10:0  9:0  8:0  7:0  6:3  5:5  4:0  3:5  2:3  1:3  city count: 19  pop count:67
11:0  10:1  9:0  8:0  7:0  6:0  5:1  4:2  3:9  2:3  1:3  city count: 19  pop count:59
11:0  10:0  9:0  8:0  7:0  6:4  5:1  4:6  3:1  2:4  1:3  city count: 19  pop count:67
11:0  10:1  9:0  8:0  7:0  6:0  5:2  4:0  3:9  2:4  1:3  city count: 19  pop count:58
11:0  10:0  9:0  8:0  7:0  6:4  5:2  4:4  3:1  2:5  1:3  city count: 19  pop count:66
11:0  10:0  9:0  8:0  7:3  6:1  5:0  4:0  3:7  2:5  1:3  city count: 19  pop count:61
11:0  10:0  9:0  8:0  7:0  6:4  5:3  4:2  3:1  2:6  1:3  city count: 19  pop count:65
11:0  10:0  9:0  8:0  7:0  6:4  5:4  4:0  3:1  2:7  1:3  city count: 19  pop count:64
11:0  10:0  9:0  8:1  7:2  6:0  5:0  4:2  3:4  2:7  1:3  city count: 19  pop count:59
11:0  10:1  9:0  8:0  7:0  6:1  5:0  4:2  3:5  2:7  1:3  city count: 19  pop count:56
11:0  10:0  9:0  8:1  7:2  6:0  5:1  4:0  3:4  2:8  1:3  city count: 19  pop count:58
11:0  10:1  9:0  8:0  7:0  6:1  5:1  4:0  3:5  2:8  1:3  city count: 19  pop count:55
11:0  10:0  9:0  8:1  7:2  6:1  5:0  4:0  3:0  2:12  1:3  city count: 19  pop count:55
11:0  10:1  9:0  8:0  7:0  6:2  5:0  4:0  3:1  2:12  1:3  city count: 19  pop count:52
11:0  10:0  9:0  8:0  7:2  6:0  5:1  4:8  3:4  2:0  1:4  city count: 19  pop count:67
11:0  10:0  9:0  8:0  7:2  6:2  5:0  4:1  3:10  2:0  1:4  city count: 19  pop count:64
11:0  10:0  9:0  8:0  7:2  6:0  5:2  4:6  3:4  2:1  1:4  city count: 19  pop count:66
11:0  10:0  9:0  8:0  7:2  6:0  5:3  4:4  3:4  2:2  1:4  city count: 19  pop count:65
11:0  10:0  9:0  8:1  7:1  6:1  5:0  4:3  3:7  2:2  1:4  city count: 19  pop count:62
11:0  10:0  9:0  8:0  7:2  6:0  5:4  4:2  3:4  2:3  1:4  city count: 19  pop count:64
11:0  10:0  9:0  8:1  7:1  6:1  5:1  4:1  3:7  2:3  1:4  city count: 19  pop count:61
11:0  10:0  9:0  8:0  7:2  6:1  5:0  4:8  3:0  2:4  1:4  city count: 19  pop count:64
11:0  10:0  9:0  8:0  7:2  6:0  5:5  4:0  3:4  2:4  1:4  city count: 19  pop count:63
11:0  10:0  9:0  8:2  7:0  6:0  5:0  4:5  3:4  2:4  1:4  city count: 19  pop count:60
11:0  10:0  9:1  8:0  7:1  6:0  5:0  4:4  3:5  2:4  1:4  city count: 19  pop count:59
11:0  10:0  9:0  8:0  7:2  6:1  5:1  4:6  3:0  2:5  1:4  city count: 19  pop count:63
11:0  10:0  9:0  8:2  7:0  6:0  5:1  4:3  3:4  2:5  1:4  city count: 19  pop count:59
11:0  10:0  9:1  8:0  7:1  6:0  5:1  4:2  3:5  2:5  1:4  city count: 19  pop count:58
11:0  10:0  9:0  8:0  7:2  6:1  5:2  4:4  3:0  2:6  1:4  city count: 19  pop count:62
11:0  10:0  9:0  8:2  7:0  6:0  5:2  4:1  3:4  2:6  1:4  city count: 19  pop count:58
11:0  10:0  9:1  8:0  7:1  6:0  5:2  4:0  3:5  2:6  1:4  city count: 19  pop count:57
11:0  10:0  9:0  8:0  7:2  6:1  5:3  4:2  3:0  2:7  1:4  city count: 19  pop count:61
11:0  10:0  9:0  8:1  7:1  6:2  5:0  4:1  3:3  2:7  1:4  city count: 19  pop count:58
11:0  10:0  9:0  8:0  7:2  6:1  5:4  4:0  3:0  2:8  1:4  city count: 19  pop count:60
11:0  10:0  9:0  8:2  7:0  6:1  5:0  4:3  3:0  2:9  1:4  city count: 19  pop count:56
11:0  10:0  9:1  8:0  7:1  6:1  5:0  4:2  3:1  2:9  1:4  city count: 19  pop count:55
11:0  10:0  9:0  8:2  7:0  6:1  5:1  4:1  3:0  2:10  1:4  city count: 19  pop count:55
11:0  10:0  9:1  8:0  7:1  6:1  5:1  4:0  3:1  2:10  1:4  city count: 19  pop count:54
11:0  10:0  9:0  8:0  7:1  6:2  5:1  4:7  3:3  2:0  1:5  city count: 19  pop count:66
11:0  10:0  9:0  8:1  7:0  6:0  5:4  4:5  3:4  2:0  1:5  city count: 19  pop count:65
11:0  10:0  9:1  8:0  7:0  6:1  5:1  4:3  3:8  2:0  1:5  city count: 19  pop count:61
11:0  10:0  9:0  8:0  7:1  6:4  5:0  4:0  3:9  2:0  1:5  city count: 19  pop count:63
11:0  10:0  9:0  8:1  7:0  6:1  5:0  4:11  3:0  2:1  1:5  city count: 19  pop count:65
11:0  10:0  9:0  8:0  7:1  6:2  5:2  4:5  3:3  2:1  1:5  city count: 19  pop count:65
11:0  10:0  9:0  8:1  7:0  6:0  5:5  4:3  3:4  2:1  1:5  city count: 19  pop count:64
11:0  10:0  9:1  8:0  7:0  6:1  5:2  4:1  3:8  2:1  1:5  city count: 19  pop count:60
11:0  10:0  9:0  8:1  7:0  6:1  5:1  4:9  3:0  2:2  1:5  city count: 19  pop count:64
11:0  10:0  9:0  8:0  7:1  6:2  5:3  4:3  3:3  2:2  1:5  city count: 19  pop count:64
11:0  10:0  9:0  8:1  7:0  6:0  5:6  4:1  3:4  2:2  1:5  city count: 19  pop count:63
11:0  10:0  9:0  8:1  7:0  6:3  5:0  4:2  3:6  2:2  1:5  city count: 19  pop count:61
11:0  10:0  9:0  8:1  7:0  6:1  5:2  4:7  3:0  2:3  1:5  city count: 19  pop count:63
11:0  10:0  9:0  8:0  7:1  6:2  5:4  4:1  3:3  2:3  1:5  city count: 19  pop count:63
11:0  10:0  9:0  8:1  7:0  6:3  5:1  4:0  3:6  2:3  1:5  city count: 19  pop count:60
11:0  10:0  9:0  8:1  7:0  6:1  5:3  4:5  3:0  2:4  1:5  city count: 19  pop count:62
11:0  10:0  9:1  8:0  7:0  6:2  5:0  4:3  3:4  2:4  1:5  city count: 19  pop count:58
11:0  10:0  9:0  8:1  7:0  6:1  5:4  4:3  3:0  2:5  1:5  city count: 19  pop count:61
11:0  10:0  9:1  8:0  7:0  6:2  5:1  4:1  3:4  2:5  1:5  city count: 19  pop count:57
11:1  10:0  9:0  8:0  7:0  6:0  5:0  4:0  3:8  2:5  1:5  city count: 19  pop count:50
11:0  10:0  9:0  8:1  7:0  6:1  5:5  4:1  3:0  2:6  1:5  city count: 19  pop count:60
11:0  10:0  9:0  8:1  7:0  6:4  5:0  4:0  3:2  2:7  1:5  city count: 19  pop count:57
11:0  10:1  9:0  8:0  7:1  6:0  5:0  4:1  3:3  2:8  1:5  city count: 19  pop count:51
11:0  10:0  9:1  8:0  7:0  6:3  5:0  4:1  3:0  2:9  1:5  city count: 19  pop count:54
11:0  10:0  9:0  8:0  7:0  6:1  5:7  4:5  3:0  2:0  1:6  city count: 19  pop count:67
11:0  10:0  9:0  8:0  7:0  6:4  5:1  4:6  3:2  2:0  1:6  city count: 19  pop count:65
11:0  10:1  9:0  8:0  7:0  6:0  5:2  4:0  3:10  2:0  1:6  city count: 19  pop count:56
11:0  10:0  9:0  8:0  7:0  6:1  5:8  4:3  3:0  2:1  1:6  city count: 19  pop count:66
11:0  10:0  9:0  8:0  7:0  6:4  5:2  4:4  3:2  2:1  1:6  city count: 19  pop count:64
11:0  10:0  9:0  8:0  7:3  6:1  5:0  4:0  3:8  2:1  1:6  city count: 19  pop count:59
11:0  10:0  9:0  8:0  7:0  6:1  5:9  4:1  3:0  2:2  1:6  city count: 19  pop count:65
11:0  10:0  9:0  8:0  7:0  6:4  5:3  4:2  3:2  2:2  1:6  city count: 19  pop count:63
11:0  10:0  9:0  8:0  7:0  6:4  5:4  4:0  3:2  2:3  1:6  city count: 19  pop count:62
11:0  10:0  9:0  8:1  7:2  6:0  5:0  4:2  3:5  2:3  1:6  city count: 19  pop count:57
11:0  10:1  9:0  8:0  7:0  6:1  5:0  4:2  3:6  2:3  1:6  city count: 19  pop count:54
11:0  10:0  9:0  8:1  7:2  6:0  5:1  4:0  3:5  2:4  1:6  city count: 19  pop count:56
11:0  10:1  9:0  8:0  7:0  6:1  5:1  4:0  3:6  2:4  1:6  city count: 19  pop count:53
11:0  10:0  9:0  8:1  7:2  6:1  5:0  4:0  3:1  2:8  1:6  city count: 19  pop count:53
11:0  10:1  9:0  8:0  7:0  6:2  5:0  4:0  3:2  2:8  1:6  city count: 19  pop count:50
11:0  10:0  9:0  8:0  7:2  6:1  5:0  4:8  3:1  2:0  1:7  city count: 19  pop count:62
11:0  10:0  9:0  8:0  7:2  6:0  5:5  4:0  3:5  2:0  1:7  city count: 19  pop count:61
11:0  10:0  9:0  8:2  7:0  6:0  5:0  4:5  3:5  2:0  1:7  city count: 19  pop count:58
11:0  10:0  9:1  8:0  7:1  6:0  5:0  4:4  3:6  2:0  1:7  city count: 19  pop count:57
11:0  10:0  9:0  8:0  7:2  6:1  5:1  4:6  3:1  2:1  1:7  city count: 19  pop count:61
11:0  10:0  9:0  8:2  7:0  6:0  5:1  4:3  3:5  2:1  1:7  city count: 19  pop count:57
11:0  10:0  9:1  8:0  7:1  6:0  5:1  4:2  3:6  2:1  1:7  city count: 19  pop count:56
11:0  10:0  9:0  8:0  7:2  6:1  5:2  4:4  3:1  2:2  1:7  city count: 19  pop count:60
11:0  10:0  9:0  8:2  7:0  6:0  5:2  4:1  3:5  2:2  1:7  city count: 19  pop count:56
11:0  10:0  9:1  8:0  7:1  6:0  5:2  4:0  3:6  2:2  1:7  city count: 19  pop count:55
11:0  10:0  9:0  8:0  7:2  6:1  5:3  4:2  3:1  2:3  1:7  city count: 19  pop count:59
11:0  10:0  9:0  8:1  7:1  6:2  5:0  4:1  3:4  2:3  1:7  city count: 19  pop count:56
11:0  10:0  9:0  8:0  7:2  6:1  5:4  4:0  3:1  2:4  1:7  city count: 19  pop count:58
11:0  10:0  9:0  8:2  7:0  6:1  5:0  4:3  3:1  2:5  1:7  city count: 19  pop count:54
11:0  10:0  9:1  8:0  7:1  6:1  5:0  4:2  3:2  2:5  1:7  city count: 19  pop count:53
11:0  10:0  9:0  8:2  7:0  6:1  5:1  4:1  3:1  2:6  1:7  city count: 19  pop count:53
11:0  10:0  9:1  8:0  7:1  6:1  5:1  4:0  3:2  2:6  1:7  city count: 19  pop count:52
11:0  10:0  9:0  8:0  7:1  6:3  5:0  4:7  3:0  2:0  1:8  city count: 19  pop count:61
11:0  10:0  9:0  8:1  7:0  6:1  5:3  4:5  3:1  2:0  1:8  city count: 19  pop count:60
11:0  10:0  9:1  8:0  7:0  6:2  5:0  4:3  3:5  2:0  1:8  city count: 19  pop count:56
11:0  10:0  9:0  8:0  7:1  6:3  5:1  4:5  3:0  2:1  1:8  city count: 19  pop count:60
11:0  10:0  9:0  8:1  7:0  6:1  5:4  4:3  3:1  2:1  1:8  city count: 19  pop count:59
11:0  10:0  9:1  8:0  7:0  6:2  5:1  4:1  3:5  2:1  1:8  city count: 19  pop count:55
11:1  10:0  9:0  8:0  7:0  6:0  5:0  4:0  3:9  2:1  1:8  city count: 19  pop count:48
11:0  10:0  9:0  8:0  7:1  6:3  5:2  4:3  3:0  2:2  1:8  city count: 19  pop count:59
11:0  10:0  9:0  8:1  7:0  6:1  5:5  4:1  3:1  2:2  1:8  city count: 19  pop count:58
11:0  10:0  9:0  8:0  7:1  6:3  5:3  4:1  3:0  2:3  1:8  city count: 19  pop count:58
11:0  10:0  9:0  8:1  7:0  6:4  5:0  4:0  3:3  2:3  1:8  city count: 19  pop count:55
11:0  10:1  9:0  8:0  7:1  6:0  5:0  4:1  3:4  2:4  1:8  city count: 19  pop count:49
11:0  10:0  9:1  8:0  7:0  6:3  5:0  4:1  3:1  2:5  1:8  city count: 19  pop count:52
11:0  10:0  9:0  8:1  7:2  6:0  5:1  4:0  3:6  2:0  1:9  city count: 19  pop count:54
11:0  10:1  9:0  8:0  7:0  6:1  5:1  4:0  3:7  2:0  1:9  city count: 19  pop count:51
11:0  10:0  9:0  8:1  7:2  6:1  5:0  4:0  3:2  2:4  1:9  city count: 19  pop count:51
11:0  10:1  9:0  8:0  7:0  6:2  5:0  4:0  3:3  2:4  1:9  city count: 19  pop count:48
11:0  10:0  9:1  8:0  7:2  6:0  5:0  4:1  3:0  2:6  1:9  city count: 19  pop count:48
11:0  10:0  9:0  8:0  7:2  6:1  5:4  4:0  3:2  2:0  1:10  city count: 19  pop count:56
11:0  10:0  9:0  8:2  7:0  6:1  5:0  4:3  3:2  2:1  1:10  city count: 19  pop count:52
11:0  10:0  9:1  8:0  7:1  6:1  5:0  4:2  3:3  2:1  1:10  city count: 19  pop count:51
11:0  10:0  9:0  8:2  7:0  6:1  5:1  4:1  3:2  2:2  1:10  city count: 19  pop count:51
11:0  10:0  9:1  8:0  7:1  6:1  5:1  4:0  3:3  2:2  1:10  city count: 19  pop count:50
11:0  10:0  9:1  8:1  7:0  6:0  5:0  4:4  3:0  2:3  1:10  city count: 19  pop count:49
11:0  10:0  9:1  8:1  7:0  6:0  5:1  4:2  3:0  2:4  1:10  city count: 19  pop count:48
11:0  10:0  9:1  8:1  7:0  6:0  5:2  4:0  3:0  2:5  1:10  city count: 19  pop count:47
11:0  10:0  9:1  8:0  7:0  6:0  5:5  4:2  3:0  2:0  1:11  city count: 19  pop count:53
11:0  10:1  9:0  8:0  7:1  6:0  5:0  4:1  3:5  2:0  1:11  city count: 19  pop count:47
11:0  10:0  9:1  8:0  7:0  6:0  5:6  4:0  3:0  2:1  1:11  city count: 19  pop count:52
11:0  10:0  9:1  8:0  7:0  6:3  5:0  4:1  3:2  2:1  1:11  city count: 19  pop count:50
11:0  10:0  9:0  8:0  7:3  6:0  5:3  4:1  3:0  2:0  1:12  city count: 19  pop count:52
11:0  10:0  9:0  8:1  7:2  6:1  5:0  4:0  3:3  2:0  1:12  city count: 19  pop count:49
11:0  10:1  9:0  8:0  7:0  6:2  5:0  4:0  3:4  2:0  1:12  city count: 19  pop count:46
11:0  10:0  9:0  8:2  7:1  6:0  5:0  4:2  3:0  2:2  1:12  city count: 19  pop count:47
11:0  10:0  9:1  8:0  7:2  6:0  5:0  4:1  3:1  2:2  1:12  city count: 19  pop count:46
11:0  10:0  9:0  8:2  7:1  6:0  5:1  4:0  3:0  2:3  1:12  city count: 19  pop count:46
11:0  10:0  9:1  8:1  7:0  6:0  5:1  4:2  3:1  2:0  1:13  city count: 19  pop count:46
11:0  10:0  9:1  8:1  7:0  6:0  5:2  4:0  3:1  2:1  1:13  city count: 19  pop count:45
11:0  10:0  9:1  8:0  7:1  6:2  5:0  4:0  3:0  2:2  1:13  city count: 19  pop count:45


Total No of combinations:232

itercount:19528773

232 solutions out of 19 million tested. But - I know more from the game than I thought I'd be able to know when I wrote this program.

At the time, I knew that there were 3 size 7 cities based on the Top 5 cities report. I also knew that the total pop points was 66. So it was easy to look through the list and find it:
Code:
11:0  10:0  9:0  8:0  7:3  6:0  5:1  4:0  3:10  2:5  1:0  city count: 19  pop count:66

This then helps me fill out my pop tracking sheet, which has become quite difficult as land points are mucking everything up (as pindicator said they would earlier).

And - since I know Max city size is 7 instead of 11, i manually hacked that into the code. That cuts down on compute time greatly, but it only off-puts the problem until later - by turn 100 the compute time will be large again.

I will also start factoring in the pop points into the program. If you know total pop points (and you should from F8 screen), then you could throw away any lines that exceed it or throw away solutions that don't meet it.

Hmmm.. I'd also like to throw in some capability for known cities sizes. i.e. from the top 5 cities page. I know there are at least 3 size 7 cities and 1 size 5 city. I could groom solutions based on that. Plus any cities i have visibility on - i could add them into the set.
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Best dating advice on RB: When you can't hide your unit, go in fast and hard. -- Sullla
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#188
July 20th, 2012, 07:11
waterbat Offline
Glad to be eliminated if knows where
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(so the solution above is an example- in the game, there are not 10 size 3 cities and no size 1 cities) Here is the solution i got last turn:

inputs:

const int CIV_POP =1033;
const int MIN_CITIES = 19;
const int MAX_CITIES = 19;

and i hacked getMaxCitySize to return 6 (as I knew there were only up to size 6 cities)

output:
Code:
------- Score Table ------------
0    1
1    6
2    21
3    48
4    90
5    150
--------------------------------
Pause...
vector: 6 11 19 19 19 19
6:0  5:4  4:14  3:0  2:0  1:1  city count: 19  pop count:77
6:2  5:3  4:7  3:6  2:0  1:1  city count: 19  pop count:74
6:4  5:2  4:0  3:12  2:0  1:1  city count: 19  pop count:71
6:0  5:5  4:12  3:0  2:1  1:1  city count: 19  pop count:76
6:2  5:4  4:5  3:6  2:1  1:1  city count: 19  pop count:73
6:0  5:6  4:10  3:0  2:2  1:1  city count: 19  pop count:75
6:3  5:0  4:11  3:2  2:2  1:1  city count: 19  pop count:73
6:2  5:5  4:3  3:6  2:2  1:1  city count: 19  pop count:72
6:0  5:7  4:8  3:0  2:3  1:1  city count: 19  pop count:74
6:3  5:1  4:9  3:2  2:3  1:1  city count: 19  pop count:72
6:2  5:6  4:1  3:6  2:3  1:1  city count: 19  pop count:71
6:5  5:0  4:2  3:8  2:3  1:1  city count: 19  pop count:69
6:0  5:8  4:6  3:0  2:4  1:1  city count: 19  pop count:73
6:3  5:2  4:7  3:2  2:4  1:1  city count: 19  pop count:71
6:5  5:1  4:0  3:8  2:4  1:1  city count: 19  pop count:68
6:0  5:9  4:4  3:0  2:5  1:1  city count: 19  pop count:72
6:3  5:3  4:5  3:2  2:5  1:1  city count: 19  pop count:70
6:0  5:10  4:2  3:0  2:6  1:1  city count: 19  pop count:71
6:3  5:4  4:3  3:2  2:6  1:1  city count: 19  pop count:69
6:0  5:11  4:0  3:0  2:7  1:1  city count: 19  pop count:70
6:3  5:5  4:1  3:2  2:7  1:1  city count: 19  pop count:68
6:6  5:0  4:0  3:4  2:8  1:1  city count: 19  pop count:65
6:0  5:8  4:6  3:1  2:0  1:4  city count: 19  pop count:71
6:3  5:2  4:7  3:3  2:0  1:4  city count: 19  pop count:69
6:5  5:1  4:0  3:9  2:0  1:4  city count: 19  pop count:66
6:0  5:9  4:4  3:1  2:1  1:4  city count: 19  pop count:70
6:3  5:3  4:5  3:3  2:1  1:4  city count: 19  pop count:68
6:0  5:10  4:2  3:1  2:2  1:4  city count: 19  pop count:69
6:3  5:4  4:3  3:3  2:2  1:4  city count: 19  pop count:67
6:0  5:11  4:0  3:1  2:3  1:4  city count: 19  pop count:68
6:3  5:5  4:1  3:3  2:3  1:4  city count: 19  pop count:66
6:6  5:0  4:0  3:5  2:4  1:4  city count: 19  pop count:63
6:4  5:1  4:7  3:0  2:0  1:7  city count: 19  pop count:64
6:6  5:0  4:0  3:6  2:0  1:7  city count: 19  pop count:61
6:4  5:2  4:5  3:0  2:1  1:7  city count: 19  pop count:63
6:4  5:3  4:3  3:0  2:2  1:7  city count: 19  pop count:62
6:4  5:4  4:1  3:0  2:3  1:7  city count: 19  pop count:61


Total No of combinations:37

itercount:209159
Pause...

As i know that there are 67 total rival pop points, it was easy- there is only one solution with 67:

6:3 5:4 4:3 3:3 2:2 1:4 city count: 19 pop count:67

also! 209000 iterations instead of 19 million (and 37 solutions to sort through instead of 232) - that max city size hack does wonders.
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Best dating advice on RB: When you can't hide your unit, go in fast and hard. -- Sullla
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#189
July 20th, 2012, 07:44
waterbat Offline
Glad to be eliminated if knows where
Posts: 2,511
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Joined: Mar 2012
with the longer vector - 3,225,600,000 possible solutions - which i cut down to 19,528,773 by throwing away lines that exceed MaxCities and fail to reach MinCities.

using the shorter vector by max city size = 6:
13,440,000 combinations, cut down to 209159 examined.

interesting ( i guess smile )
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Best dating advice on RB: When you can't hide your unit, go in fast and hard. -- Sullla
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#190
July 20th, 2012, 10:22
Merovech Offline
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Posts: 3,588
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waterbat Wrote:ok - so I can't run science at 100% - and I have a few libraries coming in soon. So.... I thought it made sense to minimize research for a while until the libraries come up - does that make sense?

For example - i am making 26 beakers at 70% - 39 at 100%, but not sustainable even for 1 turn.

So if I lower my research now to 13 beakers, save up some cash, if i then run 100% for the same amount of time - i should break even, right? The benefit from the libraries (2 of them) should kick in - I should be net positive on beakers.

This sounded good in theory, so i reduced my research to 40% (15 beakers).

Yep! That's one of the main reasons binary research is so popular around this time (the other being that occasionally one could lose a beaker to rounding when not running 100% or 0% science). In fact, many players run only binary research except when about to finish a tech; often one want to have as little overflow as possible due to the way Civ calculates it (which is something I actually only learned a while ago).

Also, wow, that city size calculation program looks really useful-Congrats on a job well done!
Merovech's Mapmaking Guidelines:
0. Player Requests: The player's requests take precedence, even if they contradict the following guidelines.

1. Balance: The map must be balanced, both in regards to land quality and availability and in regards to special civilization features. A map may be wonderfully unique and surprising, but, if it is unbalanced, the game will suffer and the player's enjoyment will not be as high as it could be.

2. Identity and Enjoyment: The map should be interesting to play at all levels, from city placement and management to the border-created interactions between civilizations, and should include varied terrain. Flavor should enhance the inherent pleasure resulting from the underlying tile arrangements. The map should not be exceedingly lush, but it is better to err on the lush side than on the poor side when placing terrain.

3. Feel (Avoiding Gimmicks): The map should not be overwhelmed or dominated by the mapmaker's flavor. Embellishment of the map through the use of special improvements, barbarian units, and abnormal terrain can enhance the identity and enjoyment of the map, but should take a backseat to the more normal aspects of the map. The game should usually not revolve around the flavor, but merely be accented by it.

4. Realism: Where possible, the terrain of the map should be realistic. Jungles on desert tiles, or even next to desert tiles, should therefore have a very specific reason for existing. Rivers should run downhill or across level ground into bodies of water. Irrigated terrain should have a higher grassland to plains ratio than dry terrain. Mountain chains should cast rain shadows. Islands, mountains, and peninsulas should follow logical plate tectonics.
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