[PB65 Mjmd] Off to Sea Once More

[Commodore]

[Mjmd]

You know what's not in this otherwise pretty good screenshot? Water for Viking ships. Not saying there isn't any, but its not currently* shown. Zulu? Maybe even Toku.

Other things to note. Not a ton of green. Hills are all plains. 2nd and and certainly 3rd food are weak. The northern deer specifically is locked behind multiple worker moves. 

If I had Imp/Org or even my lovely Vicky Imp/Fin this start is actually very nice for Imp even if as stated its bad for emperor it would combine nicely with Zulu. 

Probably two worker opening because I can already tell the worker movement is awful. Chop out first settler. Zulu also can go straight into BW, but I don't know if that kind of tech speed is necessary. France may be back in the mix though because I do love wheel starts. 

Hmmm Commodore, what size map are we talking here? Need to know for tech costs.

[Commodore]

Camps don't need chopping, fyi.

Size was voteable? I was going to set to Small unless otherwise.

[Mjmd]

I figure map makers know best.

Aware camps don't require chopping, but if I go two workers first, they will be chopping something! First worker probably do corn then northern deer. Next worker southern deer and chop a forest, build settler size 3. That's what I'm thinking.

Thinking Gilgamesh/Napoleon of France or Toku of Zulu, but leaning for one of the France options and probably Gilgamesh for speed? Creative is so variable if it will be good or not and Cha is good in my estimation. I do love Oracling MC which would probably be Napoleon. HMMMM

[Mjmd]

How tight do we think this map is? To note Commodore made PB 62..... which means I actually don't think it will be SUPER tight, but he might have tried to do a "fixed" lakes map. Combo's in order of tightness. In PB62 I also made note of "hedging" IE how good or bad is this if I'm wrong. I messed up in PB62 by choosing Financial because that wasn't even a medium hedge. 

Toku of Zulu - This is obviously great if its a tight map. Agg Zulu is actually ok if it ends up being unexpecdly loose with lots of room to expand. Both for obvious barracks synergy but also agg saves a lot once you get in the late game. With tech costs at small I'm not sure if its a good pick however if it ends up being in-between those two points on tightness, which is kind of where It think this map will fall.

Gilgamesh of Zulu - This would be a hedge pick where I want impi for 2 move defensive / offensive purposes. Gilgamesh is again my fast expander and Zulu can not only help defend but afford this better. Its a good pick for medium density map. Again zulu in general will depend on micro determining need for wheel / BW. 

Gilgamesh of France - Again micro determining I want to start with wheel and BW not an issue, this is probably the pick. Just keep it simple stupid kind of pick. 

Napoleon of either - I do like Cha for overwhipping, but while there isn't a ton of food per se. On a medium tight to looser map Napoleon would be my leader hands down, but even if we are talking PB63 tight I'm kind of leaning towards any of the 3 above. 

Also, to note there is a higher density of good or at least can fight a war players here. There really is only one unknown, so picking something with a little more hedge than Napoleon makes sense from that perspective as well,
so its probably one of the two middle picks micro dependent. If it works tech wise either way I'll probably do Gilgamesh of Zulu.

Edit: Zulu also has the benefit of if I don't need wheel but do need fast AH it can do that. Think a city to the east/NE with an AH resource.

[Mjmd]

I really like Gilgamesh of Zulu. Creative is good for awkwardly placed resources (which I've had trouble with copper on Commodore maps). I've also noted creative is low key a chariot rush trait as horse isn't always as carefully looked at as copper in any case. Zulu is good for small size not only because starting techs matter less but also because UB matters more (maintenance being more on small). It can either play defense with impi / archers or offense with impi / chariots early. Nice overall hedge pick I think. Creative helps expand while protective / zulu UB make sure economy stays ok. Still have to sim tonight. I'm curious if hitting the norther deer with culture earlier ends up mattering at all, probably not but maybe.

[Mjmd]

I've updated initial post for those curious with a different version (note different name) / some commentary. TLDR Historical Sea Shanties! Although its not a long post, go read it.

Locking in Gilgamesh of Zulu.

I can't tell if the guy on the left is making a molotov cocktail?  Guys on the right are probably drinking? I'm drinking so I'm sure locking in this pick won't be compromised at all. Either interpretation of this picture works for me honestly.

This is a low key fast start. Assuming my tech costs are correct , basically with Zulu can have wheel in time or be one turn off AH when settler is out, which is bad because that is when should revolt, so may be a turn late. Could delay settler a turn and set up next settler instead (current timing requires both workers chopping same forest, which seems unlikely unless I'm exactly expanding east/NE. France actually is worse because if I need AH its further away.

But ya I like this pick. Its fast, but also has some various economy stuff going for it. I get to avoid mysticism until I need masonry (I know optional but listen). Hoping map is more conductive to creative pushing people around than PB59 when I played, but even that game it was good for just getting resources online. Plus pick gets good flexibility offense / defense.

[Mjmd]

Posting the map for review in the lurker thread. As a note, read spec as 110 usable tiles, there will be peaks inflating the land count.

Don't think this actually changes anything for my pick. I don't think its going to be Napoleon of France kind of room and if there is more room than I think well Gilgamesh of Zulu will do just fine expanding into all of it.



Fun "what Mjmd would pick out of the other blocks" Not what they will lol.



SD block - Mjmd would pick Zara of Rome if seafood start, but maybe if not. China otherwise.

Cornflakes block - wow, nothing early civ wise. English or German if just need starting techs? Whole mess of good leaders though. With anticipated size of map maybe Julius (only Imp leader on emp I like a lot ) or Hammurabi if he is feeling agg (which he did pick PB63).

SAC (sucks at civ, needs a nickname, I'm starting it, run with it) - Mongolia probalby with Lieu Ye? Mehmed maybe. Willem and Ragnar aren't bad hedge picks. Another block with good leaders but not great civs. Babylon got a buff though right? so maybe Mehmed of Babylon?

Pindi block - America snap it off. I mean he got 4.5 good civs, someone had to, but gotta go America, but with who? Probably Frederick because I would just want to do the thing, but maybe  Kublai if wanted to play it safer (and Pindi did get rushed last game played)

Bing block - I liked Inca ded lurking PB62 seems like an easy pick. I would also be temped by Khmer.  If Inca probably Capac. Asoka isn't synergistic with Khmer but probably best leader available? Asoka might be better than Capac map size if Inca as well.

[Mjmd]

>sees two posts
>peeks to see what your plans are
>*disapoint*

> posts a bunch of plans
> sees tons of lurker interaction in other threads, but not own
> *disappoint*

[Ginger()]

>sees two posts
>peeks to see what your plans are
>*disapoint*

> posts a bunch of plans
> sees tons of lurker interaction in other threads, but not own
> *disappoint*

Well I can offer peanut gallery interaction, to the extent that it’s allowed;
I think Zulu is great, perfect for your start and the Civ is strong, but I question the wisdom of Giggles. Cre wants writing really bad while Pro ignores it until you’re ready to tech Math->3Cs
However I’m a real sucker for picking slow traits and Just Do Micro™ so maybe I’m underselling the value of Pro and Cre