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I was going to do some trait thoughts, but then I took a vacation and never got around to it, so its already begun. Every semi confident green should pick Financial. Greenline picking Wang Kong is a perfect pick for the greens continent in my opinion.
This game is going to go long in continents that can interfere at least within that continent. Maybe you have an early reduction from 4>3. But in any case its going to go late. From 3>2 sometime after rifles. But you want to win? Financial. However, the vets continent. Its going to be more brutal. While going long financial is still the king, in a knock out drag out fight org might still be the thing to do. Those that know me know I very much am early trait late trait type of picker. And while pro has grown on me, most of the time I'm still on team org or fin combined with cre or imp. Although sometimes Cha if I want a mix trait / the capital looks super whippable. I did the fun thing in PB75. I came into that game wanting to do the different thing. If TBS wasn't in this I might still veer off a little (think Hannibal of Khmer I've been wanting to try, where its two fine things in an unusual combo), but on a vets continent with TBS; KISS (keep it simple stupid).
This is a great start for America techs. Its on my list to break another game with. Doing it on a vets continent with TBS in the game should finally do it, but it is risky. I was thinking Mali or Rome as safer picks, but I'm not sure I want mining. But maybe mining is fine and Rome specifically is on the table here. While the fog can lie, currently wheel isn't as big of a deal as I had initially pegged and there is a fine 2nd city site 3w of the capital that can steal the wheat and has a couple of floodplains. I controversially did this in PB72 and I think proved that this is a fine thing to do for an explosive start. It maybe also opens up India. Now that plains cow might make you think that isn't so, but PB75 also had a plains cow I just ignored for a bit. Also, there are multiple flatland forest right near it that the worker can chop away while waiting for AH. Or I do love me Zulu. If it wasn't a vets continent thing I would be tempted for org Holy Rome with a 3rd tech. The starting techs have always been the main hindrance to choosing, but I think the UU isn't on the same level as Zulu, Rome, Mali, or India and the UB isn't in the same league as America (although what is).
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Why do you think Fin is better for Greens as a late-game trait and Org is better for vets? Not obvious to me.
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Mainly because I think the greens continent won't devolve into a grinding bloodbath and it is still the best late game trait. The last game I played with Nauf on my border I barely worked my financial cottages for all the whipping. Mind Nauf ended up as a mostly smoking heap, but its not like I had an economy. IF SD ends up on the vets continent he will torpedo you early at will and lots of whipping means less working financial tiles. If we end up having to rein in TBS that also will probably be a PB59 situation where my empire lies in ruin even if we win out then the 2 who versued TBS will have to battle the farther away person (hopefully me, but only 1/3 chance) who stayed out of it until they could stab the others.
It leaves me in a tricky situation if I choose a leader or civ first. I'm essentially at either the beginning or 2nd for the vet continent.
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I think that ORG is better for greens in the sense that it's easier to use: The economic benefit is entirely passive, and you get hammer benefit on buildings you'd build regardless. FIN is probably stronger in the late game (but you have to get there), and the hidden benefit for a green is if it pushes you into building more cottages to take advantage of the trait.
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I mean most people on the other continent aren't really "green" anymore. Also, single player unmodded civ is pretty heavy into "build cottages" so its not too much of a stretch. But yes I am more in the headspace of "if someone is trying to win the game and they are on x continent what should they pick".
I probably SHOULD pick org, but having two lakes maybe irrationally makes me want to pick financial. There also is the chance it just develops into a staring match on the vets continent.
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(October 8th, 2024, 08:30)Mjmd Wrote: Mainly because I think the greens continent won't devolve into a grinding bloodbath and it is still the best late game trait. The last game I played with Nauf on my border I barely worked my financial cottages for all the whipping. Mind Nauf ended up as a mostly smoking heap, but its not like I had an economy. IF SD ends up on the vets continent he will torpedo you early at will and lots of whipping means less working financial tiles. If we end up having to rein in TBS that also will probably be a PB59 situation where my empire lies in ruin even if we win out then the 2 who versued TBS will have to battle the farther away person (hopefully me, but only 1/3 chance) who stayed out of it until they could stab the others.
It leaves me in a tricky situation if I choose a leader or civ first. I'm essentially at either the beginning or 2nd for the vet continent.
That's an interesting take, never thought about these traits from this angle before.
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(October 8th, 2024, 10:46)Mjmd Wrote: I probably SHOULD pick org, but having two lakes maybe irrationally makes me want to pick financial.
I mean, Jowy did the weird FIN/ORG lighthouse lake opening back in PB60...
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I do think if it wasn't for TBS / being on the vets island specifically trying out some weird stuff might be the thing to do. 1 tech closer to pottery so maybe expansive gets better. Don't have to worry about worker techs as much maybe a pink dot with a religion is a thing to do. I've wanted to try fin/org India for a while and this really would be a great set up for it. CURSE YOU TARKEEL now I want to do the stupid thing. Choose agr (as I think fishing would put you too far from BW as would have to tech agr) and then go BW into fishing. Do like a 2 pop settler. It would work. Not saying its the best thing, but it would work and fin/org is powerful and India provides extra speed.
October 10th, 2024, 09:25
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I'm hemming and hawing at imp vs cre. I like charismatic, but I am worried about getting good borders more than normal here. In a normal game you can sometimes let one border go a bit, let a 2nd go because its obvious, and then focus on a 3rd. Here I either want to be able to place on a hill with creative or get out to a fast start with imp. And make no mistake this is an imp start. Going with the plains hill ivory instead of Tarkeels normal banana forest really helps out imp and obvious having a plains cow as a food hammer source focuses heavily on the hammers.
How fast do we need to be here? Fast vs go long? I should have asked for tile count before picks started. Bigger the map I also like creative more and charismatic more for that matter. But this really is a imp start. Testing to come.
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