[SPOILERS] They're cOMing to taKe mE AWAy! Haha! Hoho.

[Mardoc]

#6: The Guardians:

Elohim: Ok, I didn't ban them for myself. But honestly they don't have that je nais se quois...I just can't seem to get excited about them. Tolerant is useful if you're already winning, Corlindale is a guaranteed Heroic Archmage, Monks are quick with decent strength, Sanctuary is probably the best WS in the game...and yet I find myself yawning. Well, then I guess I won't be playing to preserve the world.

[Mardoc]

The Elf economy comes in at spots 4 and 5. It's been significantly boosted in EitB - cottages are better, grow faster with Foreign Trade, and Hunting is cheaper too so you can start earlier.

It still starts pretty slowly, though - worker penalty kicks in right away, and improving forests to use your special ability requires even more workers. Add on top that you have really no bonuses compared to anyone else until after Fellowship of Leaves - T50-60 at best. And even once you do have FoL and Priesthood, it takes a long time to build up your lands - each city can be awesome, but you're bound to have fewer of them.

Still...if there's any game where elves can shine, it's this one. So why do I rate them so low? Simple, really - they won't stretch me like the top three choices would. If you're an elf, you don't need a whole lot of planning, you know what you're going to do. You're going to research FoL, Hidden Paths, Priesthood, and then Bloom every tile while swapping into Guardian of Nature. And you're going to stack up cottages almost everywhere. There's room for planning exactly how to make that work efficiently, but most of the time, your next choice is obvious. There's never a tile you don't want to Bloom and cottage, really, and the best move is straight toward your bonuses.

Plus, ahem, one meta-consideration. It's looking like HidingKneel is going to pull off a brilliant elf economy in 23. I don't really want to follow in his footsteps, not just yet. Although there's no civ that hasn't been done well by someone or other, the civs I'm more interested in were done well further in the past .

Going to stick Thessia of the Ljo in at #4, and Vollanna of the Svart at #5. Elves need something to make up for the slow start, and Expansive is a good option. Particularly since, if I get them, I want to be full Elf Econ, which means Guardian of Nature, which means much less benefit from Spiritual than normal.

[Commodore]

Sum/Org chick for the win!

[Qgqqqqq]

Dedlurking.
I agree that the Elohim in general just feels boring.
Almost as vannila as Bannor IMO, and doesn't have an awesome peak to aim for.

[Mardoc]

Sum/Org chick for the win!

Not nearly as bad a combo as one might think. Summoner's basically dead, but Org is pretty darn good in EitB. But I still don't want her. Org is a late game trait mostly, and an ocean trait, and elves already do well late game.

Dedlurking.
I agree that the Elohim in general just feels boring.
Almost as vannila as Bannor IMO, and doesn't have an awesome peak to aim for.

Welcome aboard. I'll try to be at least as entertaining as PB1.

It's weird - Corlindale and Paladins combined with an offensive Sanctuary seem like it should be an awesome peak, but I just can't make myself excited about it. Heck, even just Monks at Priesthood could be a fairly dominant force if you beelined them.

Anyway, it's late, and we've got time yet, so I'll leave you to speculate if I'm more interested in the Gnomes, the Clowns, or the Nomads. Tomorrow's looking to be a busy day, but I can probably find room to count down to #3.

[Qgqqqqq]

Hows summoner dead?

[Mardoc]

Hows summoner dead?

Maybe I oversold it. What I really mean is, summoner isn't very valuable unless you're Keelyn. All it does is double your summons, if you have 2 turns between combat. It gives no benefit whatsoever to economy or buildings or anything but the value of mages once you have them. Arcane, on the other hand, doubles or more your mages (by making it much much easier to level adepts), and gives half price Mage Guilds on top.

I think I would usually rather any other trait besides Summoner. Excepting Barbarian, but that's meant as flavor malus, really, not a bonus.

[Qgqqqqq]

Hmm does it need a non-keelyn. buff?

[Qgqqqqq]

MOAR SPAM!!1!

[Mardoc]

Hmm does it need a non-keelyn. buff?

Probably. I'm not sure how one would do that properly, though. Maybe if it doubled Mage Guilds and Planar Gates?

MOAR SPAM!!1!

I'm trying, I'm trying. Just busy around here, between overtime at work and catching up from the holidays.

I suppose I can let you in on who I took as my #3 choice...

That's right, the lazy gnomes of the Luchiurp. Why them? Well, they've got a lot of neat shiny toys, which means a lot of analysis available to figure out which ones are *actually* worth using and which aren't. Plus, Mud Golems are still crazy cheap at 34 quick hammers for a 50% extra workrate worker, and the worldspell is all kinds of awesome.

Their main downside is that most of the golems are a trap - slow movement and no mobility or haste makes them painfully slow in war, especially if your opponent has any form of collateral. But I figure the Gnomes can still do quite well with chariots, or mages, or religion. I originally picked Garrim Gyr, actually, since he's Fin/Arc in EitB, intending a mage-focused game, but then I came to my senses. Beeri's Industrious is just too perfect for a civ that builds workers with hammers only - if a 34 hammer worker is good, a 28 hammer one is just obscene . Rather than saving time on adept -> mage, it's better to plan to save time on the basics, like time to research Knowledge of the Ether. Rather start building Adepts early and with twice the number of cities, then have a small elite few. Besides, Beeri lets me be more flexible, and less obvious about my gameplan.

Of course, no Spi or Exp or Philo means that the Luch have to rely on getting ahead with their Mud Golems and Golden Hammers, and staying ahead by snowball, which would call for careful planning. Have to get the most out of every mud golem turn if you want that 28 hammers to matter - if you build twice as many as you need, they're not saving you anything anymore.

Why'd I put them 3rd? Well...mostly because I think once I do my initial civ analysis, most of their toys are likely to fall into either the 'use all the time' bucket or the 'pass' bucket. I don't think they have much that's situational. Which means they wouldn't stretch me as much as the Malakim or Balseraphs will. Still, I won't exactly be crying if I end up a Golem Master this game.