[PB63 Mjmd] Drunken Sailor

[Mjmd]

I'm very torn if Magic should take over this turn or wait ( would be fine delaying the game for, especially as Jack is having IT issues). Obviously the biggest decision either Cairo or Magic would face is if to move the stack towards Fish. Cairo has more information to make the decision, but Magic is going to have to live with the decision.

I have not simmed out the result although I probably should tonight if I still have time...........

[Mjmd]

T175

To all the players wanting me to go to war with Ginger.



Now mind you Magic offered me peace for my city, but listen  I'm going to treat you same as Cairo. One video per post means actual turn report incoming.

[Mjmd]

T175 continued



So Magic moved in. Don't know if he knew about my galleys but what else was he really going to do? Just hang around and wait for me to out tech him? Maybe hope I care more about Ginger than him with the peace offer. Ginger and I have been living quite peacefully so I'm going after the civ which has twice stabbed me rather than the one that only did one stupid thing. Its just numbers. Speaking of numbers.......

I did not sim it. I do regret not dry whipping something last turn / upgrading the chariot as I did both this turn anyways. Killed 15 units, lost 13 (including 7 cats). Maybe I lost one more than I % should have /shrug. He does not have enough to take the city now. I'm sure even with reduced health he can max collateral my stack, but again numbers. Also, most of his units are either about same health or lower than he could get mine anyways  (from what I understand of such things).



As long as I'm on a numbers theme. Dead Horse is back to 1 turn producing units to make up for how stretched I am, which means mainly elephants until overflow reaches enough for a knight, but they are now 13 exp elephants..... BTW this is why fish in the sea is tentatively slated as 6th university city because Dead Horse isn't stopping military production if it can help it (which is why it was a little of an awkward location for HE, but ah well).

[Mjmd]

T176

From PB62.


He lost 10 trying to attack (which as stated I wasn't sure how it would go), but ya it didn't go well, so he retreated to the woods for some defense. I lost 2 high odds battles, but overall victory. And yes you do see some vultures getting frisky.



I actually spent WAY too long trying to figure out if I should kill that last unit for the 3 workers. I messed up some minor movement order stuff otherwise A) I would have been able to take it with a vulture and B) in totally unrelated news I miss moved a missionary from Lowlands way in the west that should* have ended up in one of my eastern 2 cities in two turns! but sadly I was just clicking around and forgot to use a galley chain on the other sea even though I set one up on the eastern for another missionary. Listen the song is longish and I needed filler material so you get missionary movement woes.

Edit: I feel like this song encapsulates this game. Where I'm fairly* happy with my play considering..... but ship will still end up destroyed after a good fight.

Edit: x2 Can someone ask Magic if he wants to play PB65? I feel like it would be weird from me after killing his stack. I might PM Jack. OR YOU, YOU RANDOM READER COULD PLAY!!!!

[Mjmd]

T178



So I think EVERY turn SD asks me to cancel trade with Ginger / go to war with him. This turn it was just cancel trade. Tell me good lurkers what happens if I do that?



Sure this is partly to show that EVERYONE lost power including the Chinese . Partly this is to show that my entire Fable empire exists at the will of Ginger atm. Even if I ship back my army I just CAN'T cover my entire long border effectively. And make no mistake if I stop trade I would fully expect Ginger to figure war was incoming  and prepare accordingly. My prior backstab plan was nice because he had 1 turn notice. I've thought about making peace with Magic (and in fact he offered for RollChariot), but Ginger has full eyes on everything in my empire so wherever I land there isn't a good chance to backstab, especially with my 5 knights? empire wide  .

In other words I could sacrifice to MAYBE slow down Ginger, or he would just end up getting the rest of fable for very little effort.

There is also the fact that Ginger has been friendly to me and the Chinese have twice stabbed me. So do I try to make myself stronger or sacrifice myself so maybe someone else can win? I'm sure everyone else is trying to lie to me about the benefits of being press ganged into service vs Ginger, but I have a feeling I would end up hung up and bloody. It was different when I had a full knight stack and assurances from Bing about an alliance along with Cornflakes inflicting casualties and likely to continue the war; it is different now. 

Oh Press Gang reached its final massive size of 12 this turn and the song fit perfectly.

[Mjmd]

So I guess it makes sense with the now knowledge of how MoM normally works. I think for mod purposes I would still like this fixed. As mentioned I was thinking of going nationalism because I assumed Ginger wouldn't....... It seems like there should be a chance for someone who didn't land MoM to get an extra GA via Taj.

I mean this is practically GG this game.

Charriu, is there any reason other than "because it was that way before" that MoM shouldn't work the same way as everything else in the game when it obsoletes?

Anyways Bing bothered me about going to war with Ginger a gain, you know the turn before Ginger libs rifles and then starts drafting them. I'll give SD this much credit. He at least went to war instead of just bugging me. Bing's stack has been sitting since he peaced out with Jack. No mass whipping, no nothing. He could have a nice stack of knights ready to go / have gone if he actually wanted...... I mean I could too, but whipping an empire bloody before a GA seems bad and I also want rifles. Speaking of how is my empire 2nd in GNP after most of its history being whipped silly

[Tarkeel]

MoM works the same way as everything else when it obsoletes? It's just that it's an effect that takes effect when the golden age is triggered. You won't lose GA turns if the MoM city is captured. As for interaction with Taj, MoM would be obsolete before you could possibly build the Taj, so they will no longer interact.

[Charriu]

What Tarkeel said is also my understanding and the reason why there is no change required

[Charriu]

To be fair my explanation was a bit to technically. No Ginger can't get the extended GA from MoM for Taj. This would be what happens.

Finish nationalism
Obsolete MoM
Slot in Taj
Even if you finish with Gengineer. MoM is already obsolete

Sorry for the confusion on my part

[Mjmd]

MoM works the same way as everything else when it obsoletes? It's just that it's an effect that takes effect when the golden age is triggered. You won't lose GA turns if the MoM city is captured. As for interaction with Taj, MoM would be obsolete before you could possibly build the Taj, so they will no longer interact.

Aware Taj and Mom don't work. I'm talking about the GA he kicked off 1 turn before he got nationalism.

1st I'll argue technically: from a wording perspective its a static effect "50% Golden Age Length". There is nothing in the wording about "when you start the GA you get 50% more length". Every other static effect wonder when its obsoleted or destroyed ends the effect. The two that are probably most closely applicable are Mids and Paya. When you build them you get the effects being able to be in civics you can't normally. If they are destroyed you drop out of them. Why wouldn't this be different from a pure 'how its written' / how other wonders work?

2nd argument from a balance standpoint: its pretty clear its still really powerful to parlay MoM into Taj this way. The whole change to obsolete MoM at nationalism was specifically to try to reduce the power of MoM. The current change most games is going to result in 20 turns of GA instead of 24. The nerf barely moved the needle. Also, as stated if MoM FULLY (/same was as everything else) obsoleted at nationalism it gives another player a chance to grab Taj to try to catch back up or the person with MoM has to fully obsolete in order to prevent. It would produce a lot more interesting games.