Posts: 2,257
Threads: 13
Joined: Jun 2010
So if i accidently ICS until every city of mine is unhappy at 1 pop, i'm screwed? Or is this changed as well?
Posts: 7,767
Threads: 94
Joined: Oct 2009
The penalty for unhappiness is different - it doesn't cause citizens to not work. The main effect is a penalty to surplus food, so you don't grow as much (or at all, if you are very unhappy).
Posts: 8,244
Threads: 30
Joined: Jun 2004
And additional if you grow too unhappy you can'T build any more settlers and your military gets penalties. So (depending how it works in reality  ) it looks like there is enough incentive to not ICS.
Posts: 6,505
Threads: 63
Joined: Sep 2006
Rowain Wrote:And additional if you grow too unhappy you can'T build any more settlers and your military gets penalties. So (depending how it works in reality ) it looks like there is enough incentive to not ICS.
Where is the economic penalty though? I'm thinking vs like Deity AIs this is no penalty at all. Slam out 8 cities to have enough land to ultimately win, and make the usual gamble that you won't get attacked. Maybe CiV has other mechanics I'm missing, but under CIV gameplay a military+additional settler penalty is nothing compared to your empire going on strike.
Posts: 7,767
Threads: 94
Joined: Oct 2009
Well, not being able to increase your population is the problem with that. Happiness is basically a population cap (though with a slightly soft edge). Trying to get as much population as you can up to the cap isn't abusing anything just like growing your cities into unhappiness isn't abusing anything in Civ IV.
Posts: 2,257
Threads: 13
Joined: Jun 2010
Ah, additional settler penalty. That works pretty well. I was thinking if happiness is a population cap i might as well have like 30 cities with 1 population (1 improved tile!) than a single city at the max cap (of say, 15?)
Posts: 2,788
Threads: 10
Joined: Oct 2009
SevenSpirits Wrote:Well, not being able to increase your population is the problem with that. Happiness is basically a population cap (though with a slightly soft edge). Trying to get as much population as you can up to the cap isn't abusing anything just like growing your cities into unhappiness isn't abusing anything in Civ IV.
Yes, but the problem is that in the opening game, unless they have some other penalty besides just # of pop, the correct play every time will be as many low pop cities as you can build so that you later have the land to grow into. If there is indeed some penalty for # of cities, that could work, but if it is only # of pop your just going to see ICS with size 1 cities and then expanding your happy cap to grow up vastly beat out having bigger cities in the early game with less land.
Posts: 7,767
Threads: 94
Joined: Oct 2009
Shoot the Moon Wrote:Yes, but the problem is that in the opening game, unless they have some other penalty besides just # of pop, the correct play every time will be as many low pop cities as you can build so that you later have the land to grow into. If there is indeed some penalty for # of cities, that could work, but if it is only # of pop your just going to see ICS with size 1 cities and then expanding your happy cap to grow up vastly beat out having bigger cities in the early game with less land.
There is no way we can know this without either playing it, or knowing the costs of everything and doing the math. Your guess is assuming that all other game mechanics will be like in Civ IV. (And yes, there is a happiness cost for cities. I mentioned this earlier, though it being 1 per city is only a guess.)
Posts: 2,788
Threads: 10
Joined: Oct 2009
SevenSpirits Wrote:There is no way we can know this without either playing it, or knowing the costs of everything and doing the math.
Oh, of course. This is all just speculation, not that warrantless speculation can't be fun 
Posts: 8,244
Threads: 30
Joined: Jun 2004
Shoot the Moon Wrote:Yes, but the problem is that in the opening game, unless they have some other penalty besides just # of pop, the correct play every time will be as many low pop cities as you can build so that you later have the land to grow into. If there is indeed some penalty for # of cities, that could work, but if it is only # of pop your just going to see ICS with size 1 cities and then expanding your happy cap to grow up vastly beat out having bigger cities in the early game with less land.
But they do have another penalty: Every new city adds to the unhappiness no matter how small. So your chances to spam cities wouldn't be that great.
@sunrise if you have 8 cities which can't grow, can't build any new settlers and your military has a strengh-disadvantage I doubt you will survive lng. Don't forget that buildings cost maintenance so without growing your cities you can't effort many buildings in them. With other words you have a big crippled empire that only waits for the first best neighbour to take a bite out of it.
Of course we all have only 6 more weeks until we see if they have goofed up or built something play- and enjoyable .
|
